Why is M+ key depletion still a thing?

So a group of 5 players fail to make the timer or end the run before completion. Why punish only the key owner who gets his key depleted? Isn’t the time wasted and missing the loot (or extra loot) enough punishment?

My suggestion is:

  • If a group finishes the dungeon but not in time, the key owner gets a key to another random dungeon of same level (not lower like now).
  • If the group doesn’t complete the run, the owner keys remains as it was (same dungeon, same level).
  • There are situations where there is a legit reason for depleting the key. That is when the player feels they cannot complete the key at this level, so they need an easier difficulty. So I also suggest adding an option for the players to manually deplete their keys if they wish (for example via an NPC with a confirmation message to avoid accidentally depleting keys).

Benefits:

  • For pugs, having people leave at the first death/wipe/failure, instead of punishing the leaver (as many posts suggest which I disagree with), just don’t punish the key owner. The wasted time is enough punishment. This won’t solve leavers problem, there will still be leavers but at least it will be a little bit less frustrating.
  • For groups of players pushing keys instead of getting a lower level when they fail, they can try again. Makes it consistent with raids. In raids if you wipe on 2nd boss, you don’t have to redo first boss. Or if you wipe on mythic, your raid doesn’t get depleted to heroic. You can simply keep trying.
  • It will make more players willing to run their own keys in pugs instead of saving it for guilds/friends. This means more groups in group finder and having easier time finding a group.
  • More fairness. When group that misses the timer, it isn’t always the key owner fault that caused a wipe. Why is it that only the key owner gets his key depleted?
23 Likes

Who cares? It depletes by 1.
Legion key depletion was way harsher.

6 Likes

The key owner cares. A player wants to do a +14 for the weekly vault, creates a group, someone leaves mid run, the key is ruined, now the key is +13. It sucks.

I know. It also sucked.

9 Likes

Sounds like the schools where sports day no one wins or loses and even the fatty gets a medal no matter how badly they do.

A key is a commodity, there needs to be risk associated with bad choices or bad play.

It feels to me like people can’t accept failure (omg I got punished for failing!). Naw, its just knocking it down to the level you should probably be at.

13 Likes

How is having the exact same key you started with the same as “getting a medal”?

If you go with school analogy: You have match a school. The winning team gets a medal. Then one player of losing team have his/her lunch taken away.

In a group of 5 players, only one player gets their key depleted for failing. And that player is not necessarily that one who caused the failure.

11 Likes

in before the army of nofunallowed come in and explain to you that you should be punished for failing, so you don’t do it again.

5 Likes

YOU gave me the best idea ever: PUNISH ALL PEOPLE AND DEPLETE EVERYONES KEYSTONE!!!

7 Likes

Yeah, I actually thought of that when I was writing my post, and the only reason I went ahead with writing that is that I am 100% sure that Blizzard would NEVER do that :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

maybe say it is weekly causes 85% they don’t say it and you go in and they cannot dps more than 3.0k

1 Like

Saying “it’s weekly”, “no leavers”, or whatever doesn’t help. You still get leavers. And it’s just an example.

And also this doesn’t answer my question, leavers or no leavers, weekly or not. What is the point of depleting the owner’s key and ONLY the owner’s key? May be that’s the reason someone said “no one cares”. Because that’s true for 4 pug players in the group. They don’t care if the owner gets his key depleted.

1 Like

Except, it’s not like that at all :man_shrugging:

People beat the dungeon regardless of the timer and they get a reward for that.
There is no real reason why the key needs to be rolled back if they already got punished by the loss of an extra chance for loot and the key not being timed.

Are two punishments not enough? What is the point of 3rd one? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

7 Likes

Because fun is no longer a primary goal for blizzard when it comes to design decisions.

You can see that for example from Maw, where, trust me, the fact you can’t mount there is the least of it’s issues. Fun was simply not implemented there and you get the feeling that devs no longer ask themselves this question:

Oh that is some awesome looking zone but wait… is there any fun there? How can we make it fun?

Original challenge modes did not force you to finish heroic dungeon if you happened to fail the timer, imagine if that would be the case.

And trust me again, people who seek challenge are not interested in doing some random lower tier dungeon if something doesn’t go with their plan. That design is literally opposite of fun.

4 Likes

Wouldn’t make any difference to me at all if my key gets downgraded. I haven’t played my own key for quite some time now after the tank I played with stopped playing.

I’d really like it if the keystone did not deplete. That’s why I’ve had this discussion a lot of times in the past. Most of the time people arguing against the idea can’t formulate a decent reason why this should not be.

That said, the most common answer to your question are:

  • that would destroy the concept of M+
  • without a deplete there’s no point of having a timer, because you can spend 20 hours per keys and get it done
  • RIO scores would be inflated and you could not tell the good from the bad
  • it needs to deplete
    yes… someone actually told me “the keystone need to deplete” when I was asking “why does it need to deplete ?

and basically that’s it. They don’t have much arguments, really.
But when you talk to them, they’ll assure you that you’re trolling or you don’t understand them because if you did understood, you’d agree with them…
And they’ll also report your posts if you attempt to argue back, especially if you bring logic to show that their arguments are moot.

2 Likes

why ?

why does it needs to be ?

this is computer game - it should be fun not assosiated with negative feelings and fear

thats why blizzard lost 40 % of players in 2 months

because their game is no longer fun for majority of playerbase - its only fun for elitest toxic people atm.

4 Likes

Notice how he’s already bringing toxicity and sophisms to the table, here.
That’s enough to wonder if he doesn’t want to discuss the issue, but he’d rather use that thread to show how virtually superior he is (in his own views).

I like the fact a key gets depleted personally. But if it were to be removed id accept the key changing to a different dungeon on fail as adequate punishment.

Stops people pushing a specific key endlessly in an attempt to time it / farm it or w.e. the punishment being, you might not need to time the dungeon it flips to…

This way, stops the system being abused to hard but allows people who just want a key for a chest another crack without wasting 30 extra minutes. They still got to invest time and run the dungeon again, just without 30 minutes dead play doing a 13.

That is completely irrational wanting a game to punish you. Game, you know, the thing that is suppose to be fun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people trying to push one specific key. None, zero, null, void.

Like challenge modes were working, like raid bosses are working, like literally everything else in this game works.

1 Like

Trying to get better at something is abuse. We should notify the snowflakes about this one. That’ll give them new ideas on what to complain about next week.

M+ from it’s inception is designed as a challenge , this looks like an attempt to thwart a working system .
This is the basic stuff that ppl don’t get it .
Extra-polating that everything is made for you ?

1 Like