So, in your opinion it would have been “common sense” for Rastakhan to sit down and have a friendly chat with the very people who had just attacked his city and destroyed his fleet? Eventually agreeing on the fact that alliance are the good guys and Zandalar would be well advised to join them against Sylvanas? After that?
Not to mention that the horde helped him deal with the problems in his kingdom, freed his daughter and- was about to return from Nazmir any minute.
Why on earth should he even think about parleying with the alliance in a situaton like this?
Common sense? I think not.
Same goes for Talanji’s imprisonment.
Alliance knows she plans to seek out the horde’s help- which was her only “crime” at this point- but instead of hearing her or maybe even offering a better deal, they think it best to just throw her into a cell and leave her to rot there for the time being.
Say what you will but alliance actions to “discourage” the Zandalari from allying with the horde were moronic at best.
You heard it right Hordies we got free pass to raid Kul’Tiras. Time to depose Kathrine and Jaina- one is senile and incompetent moron another is a traitor with mood swings. You won’t have to thank us.
Centuries of good leadership are to be thrown out the window because of some recent mistakes and flaws? Nah, I rather they kept Rastakhan.
Besides, his recent flaws pale in comparison to the ones that have plagued plenty other leaders.
Don’t want to pick on the wound but you are in no position to wag fingers at Rastakhan while posting on that race. (If you want to throw around that sort of “mistakes” I mean).
was so peacful that he provided Zul with the ships to wage war on the alliance and the horde and allowed the horde to use his harbour for their war campaign.
Of course the Zandalari can demand vengeance but they can’t claim that they’re blameless victms.
Not to mention that the Alliance has no right to decide who the leader of the Zandalari is. That is up to the Zandalari themselves, so the “we did you a favour!” argument fails anyway.
Nobody is arguing that they’re innocent. But it looks like they got punished for Horde faults -this is where the issue lies. I got no problems in Zandalari getting hits back but it should be proportional to their wrongdoings
’ The Drust aggressively enacted raids from Drustvar against the humans’ fledgling hamlets.[[7]] The Drust attacked the human settlers unprovoked. When the humans landed they tried peace but the Drust went to war immediately, and only a few tolerated new neighbors. They glorified the slaughter, attacking unarmed civilians.[[8]]’
As you can see, the situation is quite different. The Nelves of Teldrassil weren’t threatening the Horde with genocide. The Drust were threatening the humans with genocide, who never attacked them and only wanted peace. Every time you guys bring up a totally unrelated incident ‘but what about this or that’, you’re just harming your case.
This has nothing to do with the topic, really, so I’ll just skip this if that’s okay.
That’s not an argument. That was a suggestion for you to find ways to put your own argument into perspective. If you were to erease the names of all the WoW factions and characters, and looked at it impartially, or presented them to an impartial court of justice, they would tell you the same thing. That the people who are complicit in the wars of another nation do not get to claim that the hostilities they receive as a result are unwarranted.
I have no idea who that is, but it’s not about ‘another faction’. I already told you earlier that I play Horde too. My Horde main is a Zandalari. I play both factions, including the whole War Campaigns, which is why I know what really happened on both sides of the events.
Again you are comparing a situation which I already disproved.
Were the Night Elves harboring a faction that Horde was at war with, a faction that had just committed genocide against the Horde? No.
Were the Zandalari harboring a faction that the Alliance was at war with, a faction that had just committed genocide against the Alliance? Yes.
Did Sylvanas set out with the purpose of starting a war, killing Malfurion, and oppressing the population of Darnassus? Yes.
Did the Alliance set out with the purpose of starting a war (they were already at war with the faction that the Zandalari were enabling for months), killing Rastakhan (no, they only wanted him to withdraw his support and the protection of his city from the Horde), and oppressing the population of Dazar’Alor? (No, they never planned on occupying Dazar’Alor, it was a quick strike to secure surrender, and they only went ahead with it after most of the combatants were safely out of the way in Nazmir).
Did the Alliance incinerate Dazar’Alor and murder a large chunk of Zandalari or Horde civilians? No.
Did Sylvanas incinerate Teldrassil and murder a large chunk of Night Elf and Worgen civilians? Yes.
So again… please, people. Don’t bring up parallels that clearly don’t hold up, because you’re all basing your arguments on paraphrasing me and ‘what about xyz then’-ing my statements. And since your points like these don’t hold up, they’re only harming your case.
Yes, your Honour, I provided shelter to a faction that comitted a genocidal war crime in a war that they stared. My father’s navy was the only reason that the perpetrators of that crime weren’t brought to justice, because we two allowed the faction to hide out and build up their forces in our lands. Yes your Honour, our hospitatlity and support for the faction’s projects lead to them spreading the war to a neighbouring island, and they committed a war crime against yet another harmless city that wasn’t involved in the war before. Our cooperation with this warmongering faction - a cooperation that we benefit from yes - dragged out a war for months longer than what it would have taken without the safe haven and route connections that we provided for them.
But your Honour, then the other faction came knocking on our door (which is also the current HQ of the warmongering faction where they arrange their strikes from since we invited them there), avoided killing as much of our navy and army as possible since they were diverted to a non-combat zone, avoided killing our civilians, and asked my father to surrender and withdraw his support from the warmongering faction, he of course said no and tried to kill them with death-juice. So you see, your Honour, of course I deserve vengeance!!!
Come on… just imagine anybody making that case (would be hilarious on Judge Judy ). if Talanji really thinks that then her self-awareness = 0, and hypocrisy = over 9000. Talanji as a character can think that of course, since characters are allowed to be flawed. But we as players shouldn’t just take it all at face value when we can see the whole picture.
Please quote the whole context in which I used ‘common sense’ and not just the phrase - that way we can actually see what I called ‘common sense’ instead of you having to paraphrase and guess what you think I may have meant. I provided plenty of actual text in this thread I think (more than this thread warranted even), for you all to not have to paraphrase me and argue against that improvised statement
Except you are reaching insanely here. Can you prove that the Zandalari fleet allowed the Horde to attack Kul Tiras? You can’t, those are Horde ships in the War Campaign.
Yes. They were allied with the Alliance.
Someone that hadn’t quite committed genocide but did have a list of wrongings with the Horde.
Is genocide the only requisite that validates retribution or a cumulative sum of “lesser” wrongings cut it too?
Edit: For the record, I’m not validating or justifying genocide. I’m arguing against the reasoning that has someone waving the desire for vengeance as something unreasonable given the circumstances.
Drust were natives, humans were colonialits. If Drust didn’t want them there -they could - y’know return to home to Gilneas. It’s not like they were homeless.
But they stayed and decided to wipe out the natives instead. Noone but humans and elves can have territorial claims apparently.
The Horde dock their ship on an Island Expedition Island, and establish their base there between a crab and a banana tree. They launch their attacks from there and try to build up their supply lines themselves.
The Horde docks their ship in the heart of Zandalar, and establish their base in a sprawling and well-equipped city that the king and princess put at their disposal for their projects. They launch their attacks from a fortified base protected by the Zandalari Empire, which is protected and untouchable since it’s under the protection of the Zandalari navy.
Please, it’s like you’re all trying to misunderstand me on purpose. I never said they used the actual Zandalari ships for their assaults, but that the protection of Zandalar enabled them to to do so. While without Zandalar’s support and established infrastructure, they couldn’t have build up a supply line and staging ground in Zandalar/Kul Tiras so the war would have ended a lot faster if the Horde had nobody to hide behind.
). if Talanji really thinks that then her self-awareness = 0, and hypocrisy = over 9000. Talanji as a character can think that of course, since characters are allowed to be flawed. But we as players shouldn’t just take it all at face value when we can see the whole picture.