Why people say TBC has less community building than Classic?

This is an opinion I commonly hear thrown around when it comes to people trying to defend Classic against TBC, and it kinda baffles me even to this day. While I can definitely understand how Classic encourages community building more than Retail, I fail to see how it does more so than TBC. If anything, I believe it’s the other way around. I’ll try to touch upon all the possible arguments people may use to defend this claim and why they don’t work.

  1. The levelling experience: A common line of argument is that Classic levelling requires a lot more grouping than TBC, because (a) there’re many more elite quests in Classic, and (b) there’s more competition for resources. And thus, the argument goes, you form more bonds than you would in TBC.

Now, while it’s true that Classic has more group quests than TBC does, ask yourselves: how many of the people you know now, outside your guild, are people you bonded over during your levelling experience? As far as I’m concerned, I levelled between Aug 27th and Sept 6th (as well as between October and Feb with 5 other alts), and I honestly can’t think of a single person among my regular friends outside guild that levelled alongside me - most of them are people I met once I was at 60. The fact people level at different speeds and, thus, you’re unlikely to meet most of them more than once or twice doesn’t help.

On top of that, I can’t say the scarcity of resources actually encourages, well… friendly contacts between people. Sure, sometimes grouping helps, but many other times (such as with collection quests) it’s simply not possible. Most of my positive social experiences outside guild, during levelling, have been in dungeons - where people have an actual incentive towards working together and reap the benefits. And that’s something that works just as well (even more so - I’ll get to it later) in TBC.

  1. PvE content: Many people find in Classic’s PvE content (dungeons, raids) one of the main sources for Classic’s community building. I would definitely agree if we were comparing Classic to BFA, but in comparison to TBC I’d argue that Classic falls short in this department.

First of all, Classic’s dungeons have next to no replayability. Once you have your pre-raid BiS gear (and/or once you replace this gear with raiding gear), what motivation do you have to go into raids aside from farming the occasional Skin of Shadow or helping a guildie? In terms of gph, grouping for dungeons is much, much less efficient than solo farming - even if you’re just killing mobs in the outer world for money. In TBC, on the other hand, the existence of BoJ prolongs the viability of dungeons nearly ad infinitum. Sure, in terms of gph they’re still worse than solo farming, but to a much lesser extent.

Speaking of solo farming, the amount of farming you have to do in Classic if you wanna use consumables in raids is huge. We’re basically talking about something like 3-4 hours for every hour of raiding, if not more. In TBC, on the other hand, the amount of money and time you need to spend for consumables is less than half of what you require for Classic (largely because of how cheaper flasks are in TBC, and the fact you don’t use elixirs and rum on top of them). Furthermore, the much-reviled dailies of TBC offer you pretty much the same gph whether you do them solo or in group - unlike mob/resource farming in Classic which has drastic diminishing returns if you do it in a party.

In short, if you’re a PvE player, you end up spending a lot less time playing with others in Classic than in TBC. How is that conducive to community building?

  1. PvP content: Another segment of the Classic audience defends PvP as the main source of community building, and often cites Arenas and the death of WPvP as the main reason why the same doesn’t happen to TBC. Again, I don’t think the arguments here are quite sound.

Let’s talk about WPvP first. Much of the arguments for how WPvP builds community before lvl 60 mirror what I’ve said about the levelling experience, so I’ll focus here on WPvP at lvl 60. The main argument here, as far as I understand it, is that Classic has much more WPvP than TBC and thus you end up needing help from your faction much more often, and this leads to more opportunities to form bonds.

This is, well… not that true. Or, at least, somewhat misguided. While it’s arguably true that you have more opportunities to have WPvP in Classic than in TBC - due to the fact you gotta travel on foot - you generally need help when it comes to WPvP for objectives, such as questing/farming grounds. And this sort of thing happens just as well in TBC, due to the fact that many important mats (Cobra Scales, Primal Air/Fire/Mana, Netherscales, etc.) are restricted to few, highly farmed zones. Sure, you can always fly away in TBC, but you can’t accomplish anything up in the air.

As for instanced PvP, well… X-realm pugging really can’t foster bonds at all, so I guess what people refer to here are premades. Personally, the only point I can see here is about AB premades. WSG premades are not that big compared to 5v5 arena teams (I mean, are you telling me you can create bonds over WSG premading but not 5v5 arena?), and AV premades, well… technically only one faction has access to them to begin with, so for most people AVing in Classic is not that different from AVing in TBC in terms of community feel.


Now, I’m sure many of you can recount many fantastic community experiences in Classic, and I’m lucky enough to be able to tell the same. But, at the same time, I can’t help but feel that the game doesn’t encourage me towards these experiences as much as some people like to think. At the very least, much less so than TBC would.

9 Likes

World pvp in TBC is gank or get ganked.
People will only engage if it is an easy kill. Otherwise they will just sit safe and sound on their flying mount. All you can do is keep farming your mobs and look at him sitting up there until you are low on HP.

2 Likes

And how is Classic really that different, in this regard? I’ve never seen a character attacking me unless I was at a disadvantage (fighting a mob, low health/mana, etc.), no matter the expansion. The only thing that can be said for Classic is that the risk for “scouting” a zone is greater, but I fail to see how this leads to somehow better community building - do you group up everytime you need to scout a zone, at 60?

8 Likes

In Classic I have the opportunity to attack first no matter what. Flying mounts prevents that

Well, unless your attacker is a rogue/druid, but besides that - how does this mean Classic has better community building than TBC, exactly?

Ya, as it should be. I guess that’s why people play those classes in the first place.
Never said anything about the community. I don’t see how that would be any different from Classic

But I personally don’t like TBC. The only good thing about it is arenas. But I am 100% sure arena is gonna be garbage.
Arena needs constant changes for balancing purpose, otherwise you will face the same comps over and over. And this is what will happen on TBC. People playing the same comps

1 Like

Okay but that’s besides the topic. People are free to feel however they want about either game. All I’m arguing here is that I don’t see how Classic fosters a community “spirit”, or builds towards a social gameplay experience, better than TBC. So please let’s stay on topic.

Classic fanboys say bullcrap from anything just to defend their fav game. Both tbc and wotlk had far more player than vanilla ever.

6 Likes

TBC is wherr it’s at. It polished everything and added good stuff on top of that. Give me it already!

3 Likes

I haven’t personally seen that brought up about TBC.
I only have the evidence available of personal experience and observing populations of private servers.

A really hype TBC launch was like a 1/5th of vanilla. My personal experience of playing TBC private servers was that there could be a good reason it wasn’t as popular; it seemed people struggled to recreate it without tons of bugs and issues.

Yet, how many times you heard “TBC is just like retail” or “You might as well be playing retail”, or “Why don’t you just go play retail? The content is there already”?

If you think about that, those statements imply, to some level, that TBC’s community building isn’t as good as Classic’s. I mean, isn’t community one of (if not THE) main reasons why we prefer it to Retail?

First of all - Thank you for this very neatly formatted text. It´s a pleasure seeing something else than the regular “OMG - Nerf premade” Topics in these waters.

In terms of community building: I think you have to view classic and vanilla private servers differently.
The community on, lets say, Light´s hope was way better than what you find on most of the official servers. Minus the bots etc etc of course.
What´s most “toxic” about the current state is, that people prefer to get themselves boosted instead of doing the task at hand with their own strength.

I was fortunate enough to not experience this while i was leveling my priest. However, it came more and more into the picture by the time i was playing my warrior.
Leveling zones were even more “dead” than they usually are, since people basically get boosted from 1-60.
Another issue is, that there wasnt really a community to begin with, since sharding was there a majority of the time.

In terms of TBC vs Vanilla (Sorry, i cant say classic):
I think TBC raiding /Dungeons is able to build a community as strong, if not stronger, than classic (damn, i said it) can. Maybe smaller, but stronger.
Raids are smaller, which means guilds will be easily able to make like 2+ karazhan groups, which has to be coordinated. And a guild with good coordination equals a tightly nit community, atleast for me.

In terms of leveling:
Outland leveling doesnt require much grouping apart from Dungeon groups. You get the occasional Elite quest, but its somewhat rare.
1-58: when TBC launches : not really much of a community aspect there. People will be rushing through the zones without giving it too much thought.
And i tell you now, that there will be people asking for higher leveling rates from 1-58. I really hope blizzard will pay them no attention. Those people are worse than corona.

1 Like

classic is good for some type of players & tbc is good for some type of players & both are sh**t to some type of players.

TBC will definitely attract more players into game because tbc have better content on a chill level of game play experience without needing to farm hours for raid consumables while it has some challenges! and the new zones/raids have cool environment/music.

most players enjoy the pvp part despite they aim to rank or get high rating, they only log to kill each other lol so having arena will make the game more lively and faction balance doesn’t matter because you can face same faction in arena.

1 Like

Thank you for your reply Zarkom.

I personally think that you give the levelling experience way too much importance. I mean, in terms of community building, as long as you keep playing for months after you first reached max level, the number of people you met while levelling will matter less and less as time goes on. Partly because many of them will eventually become inactive (or just end up nested in other guilds), partly because you’ll meet a LOT more people once you start doing dungeons and raids at 60 (or 70, in TBC’s case).

Also, about your TBC vs Vanilla comparison regarding PvE:

I agree with you that a slightly smaller guild would probably feel more tightly knit, but my point was also that Classic simply demands way too much time spent solo farming consumables etc, and doing dungeons is basically pointless for the most part. Whereas TBC allows you to spend a lot more time playing dungeons, gives you a reward for doing so (Badges, epic gems, etc), and even gives you dailies to farm gold alongside other friends without losing out on much.

Never heard anyone say that but ok ( title )

Cba to read your bible

Why am i here?

Read the first sentence

Your second sentence pretty much explain the first one - i.e. you probably spent less time than I do reading threads and posts around this forum and others

No but i dont want to read a huge a** bible, heck most threads are less than 10 lines

Putting aside your inability to read long posts… if you haven’t ever met at least a single thread or post claiming that “TBC is just like retail” then you haven’t really read many discussions about TBC over the last few months.

You seem to have anger issues if you’re getting rude over something so minor lol

or maybe just really sensetive, noticed that with classic boomers

I can read the thread if it makes you feel any better …?

Uhm yea?

Because theres no TBC section here, i just see some of those posts pop up now and then saying how cool it would be if we had tbc servers ect