Sure, most PvPers who play MMORPGs prefer to have character progression. But they dont want to be forced to PvE for better or faster upgrades, no matter how much you love the idea that killing dragons should make you stronger versus players than the person dedicating their time to slaying players.
I mean all the evidence points towards most mmo players enjoying mmopvp with gear mattering instead of pvp with templates.
Other mmos like Archage and Blade and Souls Templated arena being less popular than their templated counterparts.
Gw2 having no progression yet their pvp allegedly being dead.
Also Blizzard removing templates after just a single expansion.
We didnt get an official statement as to why but i cant imagine blizzard would have removed them if pvp got a big influx of players from them.
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Luckily, pvpers currently dont need to step foot in any pve content, infact itâs the other way around because PvP gearing is that much better!
And at the end of the day, whether you like it or not, WoW is a pve focused MMORPG, with pvp as a side thing. And hereâs gonna be an unpopular opinion⊠But if you raid mythic (and I mean clearing it fully, not just first two bosses) and also pvp at a high rank, I think itâs only fair you have a small edge.
And by that, I mean a 5% or similar edge, not like mythic drest vs HC drest etc.
Yeah, and thatâs not good either.
At the end of the day there are actual facts that show that PvP was as big as PvE.
Despicable ideas that belong in the trash bin.
Imagine thinking a 5% edge is not considerable lmao.
This whole pvp is a side thing bullcrap again? Fact is that once upon a time there were more people or at least as much queueing for battlegrounds and rated pvp than people who did dungeons and raids. So gtfoh with that debunked bs.
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Well, overall the templates in Legion were mainly disliked due to the lack of customisation, not because it removed the character progression feeling. But they took the complaints too far and just removed them completely and introduced something much, much worse.
And well, how popular templates in other games are doesnât say much. There can be 1001 reasons why one is preferred over the other without it saying anything about MMOs overall.
End of the line, the character progression only counts in PvP if someone else is âslowerâ/âbehind the curveâ. Otherwise the gap between you and others remain the same and thus the progression doesnât feel like progression? Itâs like scaled content for that matter, and we all like that so much, donât we?
Itâs not as simple.
But people still copy-paste BiS. This is even go in PvE since forever⊠
Tho people just want to dominating by gear. Most of the hate posts i see was about why i spend so much time on this char and this is not rewarded.
Yea well, that doesnât mean that this is the right group to please 
I really hope they make this happen. Making new alts for pvp atm is horrible because of the huge gap in gear power and how bad the current system is.
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I can tell youâre not a fan of MMORPGS, maybe you should try playing roblox pvp.
You can whine all you want, pvp is and always has been a side thing to the game, was it a side thing with a big crowd in the past? For sure, but that doesnât change what it was, the fact youâre even trying to argue otherwise is borderline delusional.
Looking at the current tier examples theyâve used, the proposed item level for top end PvP gear is 232. With the majority of the PvE pieces being 226 and only the final two mythic bosses bringing you 233 stuff, this is honestly such a minor difference that weaving in pieces from Stone Legion and Sire mythic (which most PvErs donât even kill) sounds extremely min-max. A lot of work for a difference thatâs 0.2% extra performance at best, and in some cases would actually be a downgrade since PvE pieces are usually not very vers-heavy. Most raid gear and anything coming from m+ will become useless in arena if they follow through with that idea.
If PvP is a side game, why do you care how PvP is played? I mean, its a side gameâŠso you donât have to play it.
Customization was one reason why it was dissliked but most people dont actually care that much about customization. Its more an illusion of choice than an acutal one. (Although an illusion of choice would obv be better than none)
Bfa actually had the most customization of any expansion ever.
Secondaries, Talents, PvpTalents, Trinkets, Essences and Corruptions all served as a forms of gameplay customization. Yet most people still ran the same build every game.
I have never even heard anyone praise bfa for the amount customization it had so i dont see how people would be happy with templates as long as they were customizable.
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It was never a side thing, but please continue with that bs. Also, I would suggest youâd look up the word whine before you use it.
I wonder whyâŠ
- Trinkets: non-PvP source
- Essences: random source, often enough the good ones were stuck behind raids or what not. That and the need to grind AP to progress in the amount of essences available
- Corruption, RNG RNG RNG
- Azerite, RNG RNG RNG
Just because the customisation was terribly implemented in BfA doesnât mean that we didnât want it as addition to the template in Legion? What kind of logic is this.
It was always a side thing, everything indicates it, but keep being delusional.
That straight up made no sense, try again.
The only delusional person here is you.
That would be fantastic news. Hope weâll get something like that 
I donât think that at all. The âedgeâ soils every win because it couldâve been the âedgeâ causing the win. (In somes cases it isnât, in some cases it is.) 2 Players of equal skill the one with the 5% edge is more likely to win.
I say make it the other way round. Let them choose to take -5% in increments to flex on everyone how good you are, winning even with a disadvantage. Make achievements for reaching glad with a -5% debuff. Shower the guy who does it with a -20% debuff in cosmetics, titles and mounts that are hopefully not recolours from pve content.
Iâve never liked that example⊠Iâve used it myself, but Iâve never liked it. It has never truly represented how it plays out in WoW, so Iâll give it an attempt to illustrate it in a more relatable fashion that isnât too vague like that example is:
It can make the difference between dying at 0.1s left of a stun, compared to getting a GCD out of the stun that can be used to save you.
It can make the difference in cast speeds, one will CC faster than the other in a mirror.
It can make the difference in CD timings, letâs say youâre ideally aiming to pop ur burst when the opponent is at ~75% hp at the start. It would get ur target down to that faster.
It can make the difference in def CDs, be geared enough and you can facetank more things instead of needing to throw your couch, bed and fridge just to survive or to be able to heal through a small burst.
âEqual skillâ is an illusion in WoW, there are way too many variables and from the beginning you donât start with equal conditions unless youâre facing a mirror. The difference in skill between players, even when on the same stable MMR, is too great to be compared.
Hopefully those examples makes it a little easier to picture the impact gear differences can have.