God I had so many alts in WoD.
Right now I know if I level a new character to 60, I’ll have to go through to boring storylines, Torghast, and I’ll be so severely behind on gear it’s just not going to be fun. Can’t be bothered.
Wod wasn’t friendly for the sake of being alt friendly. It was friendly because you didn’t have much to do.
Funny that after so many expansions and 16 years, people are now all of a sudden, annoyed by questing and leveling and ileveling and everything else.
As for legendary, you can make a 190 piece in 2 week’s time, and it only takes that long because it’s time gated. Not time consuming.
If you can’t be bothered, then maybe it’s just that you’re not that into playing anymore. Because I’m seeing my friends going through their 4th or 5th alts and enjoying it with everyone.
And considering how everyday you come here and complain about something new, I think it’s just you who doesn’t like wow anymore but still plays it for the sake of it being something you “always did”.
Good. PvP players don’t want to have “much to do”. They just want to PvP.
I don’t care about “content”, give me good class design and alt-friendly gearing and I can play the same expansion for 10 years in a row with no new content without complaining.
That’s one benefit of private servers actually. Eventually, you reach the last patch an expansion has to offer and you just can’t outgear people, everyone has full conquest gear and it’s not even a factor anymore.
You need Torghast. It’s already painfully boring on my main, there’s no way I’m going through it all on a new character. It’s boring, unchallenging, and set in a very depressing and bland environment.
I’m into the combat system. There’s not a single game out there that has a better combat than WoW for me. I also love PvP, and I can enjoy the occasional PvE encounter.
However, I don’t enjoy how important gearing is in PvP, and how many annoying chores you have to go through before you’re allowed to compete at a decent level without feeling naked and powerless. A problem I did not have in expansions prior to BFA.
I think it was you who i said it before, now i’m going to say it again. this is an MMO. Not a moba. In MMO’s the time and effort you spend on gearing directly influences how strong or weak you are in the game. Whether it is pvp, or pve.
You want to spend 24/7 doing pvp only? then expect to underperform in comparison to someone who not only did what you’re doing but also went and did torghast stuff.
I would definitely side with you, if it was this endless grind the way BFA was with everything. I mean legendary cloak upgrade? It was the dumbest system ever. Essences? Even worse for alts.
But it’s not. It’s minimal time requirement in MMO’s scale. The systems provide you with the opportunity to pvp all the way through leveling your alt from 50 to 60 and you can gear yourself up with the honor and conquest you eventually farm by doing the said pvp.
That’s good enough. If you don’t like it, then too bad. I don’t want to do mythic+ either. It’s a garbage content in my opinion, but i have to do it because raids just don’t provide enough and to even raid, you need mythic+.
In an MMO, often times you go for the reward and deal with the grind.
You’re fortunate enough that most of your grind is what you enjoy.
Bla, bla, bla…
The stupid “it’s an MMO!” argument is weak considering many MMOs out there (TESO, GW2, FF14…) have alt-friendly PvP.
GW2 especially: you can start PvP literally at level 1, being scaled to lvl 80 with all spells and talents unlocked, and you can customize your build by picking your preferred stat combination and sigils.
I guess GW2 is not an MMO then? What is it, a RTS game? A shooter?
then by all means. Play that MMO instead.
Because what makes a good MMO, is the ability to see your progress and to see being rewarded for the gear you got and the effort you put into your character. And if you can be a lvl 1 and already perform at a high end level, then it’s a pointless game in my opinion.
This expansion is alt friendly enough. An hour of extra weekly torghast is fair enough. If you can’t handle it, then don’t play an alt. stick to your main.
I saw that one coming. So predictable.
I don’t enjoy the combat in this game.
That’s how PvP works in every single other game that has PvP in it though.
Are PvP games pointless? Should people stop playing FPS games, RTS and chess because you can’t outgear people rather than outplay them?
They’re not Mmo’s. This Genre of the game is time+skill = power. It’s always been so. Skill matters, but it’s not all there is. even the worst player in the world when maxed out, can beat a lvl 10 professional ESPORTS Arena player.
what you’re looking for isn’t something you find in any good MMO out there.
It’s like me going to a game like counter strike and say, why can’t i farm better guns and get stronger.
PvP players thinking the worst expansion in the games history says untold amounts about both said expansion, and PvP players.
This is a PvE game with a PvP side-game, stop being shocked that you’re not purely catered to.
I dismissed that “argument” already. Many other games that also happen to be MMOs have a different approach to gear in PvP.
Except it does. 
Because in PvP, the fun comes from winning through skill alone, and overcoming challenges by learning how to master your character. Not by just having the bigger weapon.
PvE and PvP players have different expectations, which is why they should be treated differently, even within the same game.
Let gear matter in PvE, and let PvP players enjoy the game as well.
Then let gear matter in PvE. I’m not asking for PvE changes, am I?
It does.
It also matters in PvP. As it should do. That is how MMORPG’s have worked, still work, and will continue to work like.
ok. Good MMO out there that gives you free gear.
Go play that. WOW isn’t meant for you. Because in this game, we gear up to get stronger and this has been the system since classic.
You either understand and accept the system, or move on and play something else.
You can’t have both ways.
Yeah, that’s how they all work. Except for, you know, other MMORPGs.
Not interested in action combat. No other game offers a class with 35 useful combat abilities like WoW does.
Except there have been exceptions, both within the MMO genre as a whole AND within WoW.
PvP gear used to be better and you could mostly skip annoying PvE chores from WOTLK to Legion.
WoD being the single most PvP-friendly expansion.
The game has been for me. For many, many years. It only changed in BFA and Shadowlands.
at this point, I feel like i’m talking to a brick wall here.
MOSTLY. Not entirely.
Now nothing changed. You can mostly skip touching pve stuff. But you do your one hour weekly torghast.
If you can’t deal with it, then DON’T. either quit this game or quit on having alts. How hard is this one sentence to understand?
The system here is fine. It has been working for 16 years and almost all pvp exclusive players as well as pve players do it and they don’t mind.
This game doesn’t always offer convenience or freebies.
No, you can’t. You need to complete the boring campaign and upgrade your renown, which is another layer of boredom.
Then, you need Torghast, which bores you for an hour of two, depending on whether you rush it to be done with it, or if you do like I do now - AFK between pulls to post on the forums, or just do more interesting activities before going back and clearing more easy and unchallenging wings of Boreghast.
Amazing game design.
You do Torghast for 4-5 weeks until you get your max rank bis legendary, why would you keep doing it after that? Do you really want or need other legendaries at max rank? I got mine at 235 this week and I won’t be doing Torghast again.
I agree though that WoD had very good systems for both pve and pvp, but the most alt-friendly expansion for pvp was Legion actually, templates made gear irrelevant and I could play arena or bgs with any alt I wanted, they should have just made templates customizable and it would have been perfect
235 is the current maximum ilvl. You shouldn’t stop doing it.
When the next raid opens, you’ll need to upgrade your legendary again. And again.
And again.
For gearing sure, but Legion had AP grind, which took way more time (especially early in the expansion) than it did gearing an alt in WoD (a single day).
No you don’t. Very basic levels of renown give you enough of your conduits and the early levels of conduits are the stronger ones. So you’re fine. unless you want 0.1% better damage i guess.
yea it is. Any good game developer out there makes their game for a specific playerbase. And only garbage designers try to satisfy every single type of player out there. Because the consequence of trying to satisfy everyone, is that you won’t satisfy anyone.
Now that it’s settled, it comes down to a very simple question.
1- Do you like this game enough to keep playing or you don’t?
which the answer comes in the format of, then do the stuff or just leave for another game out there.
This thread is like trying to say a 2002 Peugeot is better than a 2020 Ford because it isn’t as bad if you wreck it.
Nothing to do on your main so your alts weren’t really behind isn’t a selling point.
WoD wasn’t alt-friendly compared to SL, what are you even talking about?