You might be right, and you might be wrong. No one knows for sure.
If you are right, the consequences can still be huge: Per example you dont get that spot in the raid, the high m+ key, or arena, if you have the “Wrong covenant”
As this is already the case today. Ive pugged +15 weekly on my alts, and the amount of invites/declines vary alot depending wich class/spec i apply with.
Community mentality is like a pack of sheeps. Some specs are “Supposed to be bad” and therefore getting invites is harder, even tho any spec can perform in something as trivial as per example +15 or heroic raid.
Covenants will only strengthen this further imo. I dont see how not. I already hear “Lol kek u nout heve xxx covenant whey u apply to mi +10 u not vaiable git gud kek” - And imagine applying with “Wrong covenant” AND “Wrong spec”
Thats your personal opinion, wich you ofc are allowed to have, but its not the opinion of everyone.
I tried out Classic, didnt last long, as someone who played trough all of Vanilla and did all of the endgame content. I realized: This thing belongs to the past, 15 years in the past to be precisely.
If Classic was what everyone wanted, then everyone would be playing it and Retail would be dead. Its not the case, and there is a reason for everything.
It’s meaningful for the content that i can go through.
It’s meaningful because it changes my gameplay to suit it… or to suit my preferences whichever i want, whatever i chose.
But most of all it makes the game more FUN for me and many others.
Restrictions on these systems makes it less fun…
Most classes 1 Convenant is BiS for every situation. so i dont think convenants will cause this problem. i wont be suprised if conduits go to the same way.
the problem is… we dont all wanna play our BiS convenant… i defintly dont wanna play kyrian… yet the game could defintly make me feel force to
???
Oh right, we live in a world where people redefines everything to make them sound right
Choice is when you have option A and option B and you have to pick one.
If one day I go shopping and I choose between ice-cream or chocolate for a snack and I pick chocolate doesn’t mean that suddenly I’m blocked from buying ice-creams -.-’
First, it depends on what content you’re doing, and second, it’s definitely not in the range of 3%. You don’t even need sims or anyone to tell you if you can just look at the abilities and think about what they do for a few seconds, that they just won’t work well for different specs, roles and enviroments.
It was never expected to be perfect, the idea isn’t ineherntly bad, but the implementation has gone terribly wrong. At least they are now slighly redisigning and revamping some of the abilities to work slightly differently for individual specs, but there’s still a long way to go and they’ve only now begun doing it, less than a month before release, and some of those changes aren’t even available on beta yet. But the abilities aren’t the whole problem. It’s the entirity of the system and how entagled it is that makes it nearly impossible to have some form balance within reason.
How does preventing me from swapping a power for a set amount of time not fit the definition “timegating”? Just because it alerady describes one thing, doesn’t mean it can’t describe another. I don’t really see a problem in using it this way, but feel free to propose a different term.
You could just as well use the term “cooldown” on what you call “timegating”, because it’s effectively a cooldown on the story progression, just like timegating.
What could possibly imply I’m in that group? I’ve seen some of the best players use similar arguments to mine. Does that mean they are also clueless? I’m not claiming I’m one of the best, but I know more than enough to identify issues myself.
And no I didn’t get the arguments from them. I’ve been worried about the exact problems we are now arguing about ever since they first announced covenants at Blizzcon last year.
You mean locking the current talent “tree” that is basically just pruned abilities that used to be baseline slapped into talents? Yeah that sounds like a great idea to me. If it kind of worked on something else, it must surely work for this too, right?
It was 50 gold for god’s sake… and barely anyone ever had to swap as often for it to become an issue. But if they had to, or wanted to, it wasn’t a big deal.
You’re right. Covenants are far from ideal. But Blizz can’t just bring the old (and good) design practices back. It’ll backfire. Greasing players first with a system that normalizes some restrictions is a good first step. Then you go full out with talent trees and gold cost for respeccing, which you can only do at a trainer, making gold matter again, etc. Covenants for me are Blizzard’s realization that since Wotlk (and I liked Wotlk, but it did set the game on its current path) they’ve been taking the game in the wrong direction. It’s their realization that restrictions are valuable, and a game is a set of sensible restrictions and liberties.
I don’t like covenants as a whole, even if I think they’re generally good. The reason I don’t like them is that they don’t make any sense. You kill an enemy, get loot, gain exp, level up, unlock new skills - that makes sense. Covenants… they don’t make sense. I want the game to step back from these systems and go back to a simpler time. Simple, but deep is the ideal game design for me. WoW’s current design is complex, but shallow. The exact opposite.
What Thyri said is kinda right tho.
If everyone suffer the same restriction, few people will be able to play X characters of same spec just to be optimal in all type of content.
Dude, do i really have to explain to you that gear is not the issue here?
Me, you, everyone will get gear when they get gear.
Saying that you need gear to achiev a level of “optimal” is like saying you need to have 2 hands to be optimal. No crap?
Switching between Covenants is time-gated, switching conduits is time-gated.
I won’t “eventually” be able to switch between them once i acquire all soulbinds for example.
I don’t care what choices you make, i don’t care that you don’t want to switch. If you don’t want to switch or chose X or Y or Z. Go ahead.
If someone tells you to, say NO, tell them to get going.
I care that i won’t be able to make choices when i want to, when i need to, when it feels best, to increase my enjoyment in the game.
I care that i won’t be able to play how I want to.
And no, it’s not the same as someone asking you to switch adn you refusing.
I CAN’T Switch and refuse a 1 week lockdown. I can’t say NO to that.
Blockquote
Horrible dirty meta-slaves indeed. You haven’t made any discussion or contribution yourself, you’re just doing whatever you’re told because you’re told it’s optimal, and if the optimal build isn’t within your power to reach for, you just get confused.
with a one week lock out before you can change your conduits, how much do you think people are going to be able to experiment with differnet combinations and how much do you think they will be following guides and metas ??
Putting the restrictions into a system where it doesn’t fit or make sense is not a good step forward. Instead of creating another messy web of borrowed power systems, they could have redesigned the talent system and classes in a way that it wouldn’t feel bad to be restricted in some way, if they really wanted to. Covenant abilities are just a talent row disguised and sold as a “meaningful choice”, soulbinds are boring and the weekly lockout on swapping conduits is the most pointless, meaningless and forced lockout I’ve ever seen in the game. At least going to a class trainer and paying for “retraining” made some sense. Now you just get a prompt window that says something.
They may have taken the wrong dirrection, but they aren’t helping anything whatsoever with their current decisions. They put the least amount of effort they could have to achieve their goal and now they have to deal with a complete mess for the next two years.
Designs that players didnt like when the expansions were current. Repeat after me PEOPLE LIKE PLAYING CLASSES NOT SPECS, granted back then we didnt have such a huge seperation between specs, if blizzard want to bring spec locking as thing, FIX CLASSES.
Yes , yes it will.
Yet again, we didnt have that many things to do in TBC and WotLK, we didnt have M+ and we didnt have (Mage Tower, Islands, Visions, Torghast), it was Raid or Die, you could just stick with your raiding set and be top, if you wanted to PvP you had your PvP gear, and you know what PEOPLE COULD SWITCH THOSE.
Covenants are borrowed power, a cluster of reskined previous systems. Blizzard even addmited that the gold cost on Azerite was a mistake and now they are just timegating switching, how is this not a red flag for you honesly. There is nothing RP or G about this system, you are just so tick headed to notice it i guess.
