No, I explained why your argument is flawed in the rest og my post?
If you don’t want to use cyclone, remove corruption or whatever other ability, just remove them from your bars and leave them in the spellbook.
This has nothing to do with the argument.
You are saying you are fine with all these abilities in the talent tree because you wont pick some of them anyway/dont want to pick them.
Ok, fine. I don’t really why are you so intimidated by a spellbook having loads of abilities- When, in the past expansions upon which this new talent system is based upon, we had pages upon pages of abilities and ranks. Compared to MoP we have on average 2 or even 3 pages less.
But none of that refutes the argument I made at all. In 99% of the cases, you will rather pick stun or any other talent than for example hibernation. An ability with extreme niche use.
So you wont just pick it at all, even in situations where it might be useful because the other options will outperform it almost allways.
So your choice in those situations hasn’t increased. It has decreased. Because previously, good players that maximized the use of their kit could make use of that ability and have that tiny little extra options available. But now that is simply gone.
I can’t speak for other classes because I just don’t play them enough. But yeah… I am completely happy with how BM hunter plays and have been happy with that since they did the big class changes in Legion.
There literally IS a difference. Why do you refuse to see that?
Can you pick two talents from the same row right now? No. In DF you CAN.
Can you pick a legendary power from Legion and an azerite power from BfA and a covenant power right now? No. In DF you CAN.
It might not be the ‘difference’ you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that it IS different.
The fact that you cannot move around the tree freely kind of kills any opportunity of creativity with this. Either that, re-arranging the tree into a grid pattern or even simply adding more paths would help somewhat. But if it stays as it is I don’t see how this is in any way an improvment on the current system.
I mean take a look at the general tree for druids:
On live I mostly play feral affinity resto; this is what the tree looks like after taking back everything that is currently available to me. (more or less, it’s literally impossible to get back everything because there are not enough points)
Let’s look a the things I gain here. Keep in mind that none of these are active choices I have made, they are simply necessary points to spend to access what I once already had:
Increased Armor and Physical Damage [NNF]: Armor and Physical damage dealt increased by 6%
Increased Healing and Magic Damage [NNF]: Healing and Magic damage dealt increased by 6%
Increased Healing & Healing Taken [NNF]: Healing done and healing taken increased by 6%
Primal Fury: When you critically strike with an attack that generates a combo point, you gain an additional combo point. Damage over time cannot trigger this effect.
So in the end, I am walking away with some passive % increases, and 1 actual interesting and useful thing in Primal Fury. But at the same time I am involuntarily giving up Hibernate and rake stun. There is no active choice on my part here.
With this new system, I AM going to lose some thing for other things. That in itself is not a problem. I would love to give up ‘Soothe’ for something more valuable in arena games where it has no use, but that’s not really possible here, because you have to wade through so much useless stuff to get to the talents you want. And because Soothe is also not an end point talent, that means I wouldn’t just have to give up Soothe, but also Stampeding Roar and any other talent which path is blocked by Soothe.
The same goes for the spec tree. I want a resto build without efflorescence, wild growth and tranquility. A purely 1-2 target priority build. But in order to do this I still need to take several talents I do not want. Honestly, the only thing that really offers any amount of flexibility here are the last tier talents. You’re going to get 3-4 of those, and that’s what ultimately is going to define your playstyle. The rest of the tree is just filler.
People asked for old talent tree system without what it would entails, the same way players wanted tier set backs without drawbacks that are coming along.
Factually wrong.
In fact, creativity is often sparked more if you are somehow limited a bit in ‘what’ you can do (this is a general fact).
It’s a proven fact for instance that having more choice often can lead to making no choice just because of the sheer amount of choices. Having limited options makes it easier to pick, but also keeps your mind more focussed which leads to more creativity.
Now; that doesn’t mean these trees are perfect. I’m not saying that. But they should definitely not allow you to just click ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you want.
Making a choice can be a creative thing in and of itself.
Who asked for that? Players wanted neww talents instead of borrowed power that you lose with every new expansion. We didnt get any new talent since legion…its same amount of rows…add more rows, new talents etc…
Nobody asked for them to prune our entire class and put it in a talent tree. Youre not getting anything new with this either. +6% to armor +6% to that and tot his isnt anything new …its like the latest lame tuning passes.
Stop presenting +6% increase to bleed as an superexctinig brand new cool stuff in exchange of losing active niche abilies we curently have.
I would love to play around with these talents, give feedback and see what builds i can actualy make and also wgat ill actualy lose compared to current class. But priest talents arent out…and with current rate of develepomenet, meaning two classes per 4 months ill try to create my build somewhere around christmas with two weeks left for feedback …like with the shadow priest rework for sl…
This does not apply here because all of the choices are predetermined. You are already limited by what abilities you are presented with. The only aspect of creativity at play here are the various combinations of talents available, thus less combinations do in fact result in less creativity.
I never said this. By ‘moving around freely’ I clearly meant allowing us to move upwards in the tree as well, and not just down. You would still be heavily restricted by the number of points and available paths.
Yes, and despite what it looks like at first glance, the choices presented here are very uninteresting.
I gladly disagree the unique gameplay of legion/BFA was much much better
i actually loved playing shadow priest in BFA because of that mechanic when your insanity is droping and you are trying to hold it for longer so you can do more dmg.
And that’s why they can never please everyone in this game. People like all different kinds of things. For me, it felt like going back to WOTLK when I mained Spriest.
Thats debatable. For pvp? Yes. For pve? Nah.
But my point isnt if it was good or bad…my point is that it was rushed, no time to test it…no good leggo that supoorted DP playstyle…all covenant abilities and soulbinds trash and clearly designed for previous iteration. etc…
Thats what you get if you wait and see…thats my point.
Some old players rambling aboot ye good ol’ days, ie classic andies since to their eyes, trees were better than Mop talents. I disagree with such statement as I do think trees are boring at worst and irrelevant at best.
They should have expanded Mop system by adding a forth column and 3 rows. But that’s not the path they’ve chose so there is nothing we can do aboot.
Sure but bringing back old talent trees would have forced this to happen. I mean, a friend in classic explained me why I should not be casting some spells even thought I’ve bought them since they would not be worth casting if I didn’t have had enough talent points improving those talents. Not to mention of course the fact that old talent trees has plenty of active spells inside them.
As for pruning the entire kit, I quite both like and dislike it, in the way that melee dps should have interrupt as a baseline spell but the pro is that healers get an interrupt too.
And that kind of talent is the reason why I didn’t want old talent trees back. These talents are bad design in the way they’re really boring and aren’t improving gameplay in any shape or form. But these boring talents wouldn’t have been removed since talent tree format pushes that.
I don’t and then again, I never pushed for trees to come back. If anything, trees were asked by people that actually don’t play retail.
Playing FF XIV made me realize how outdated is the idea of talents.
From dk tree, it would be like being able to pick 2 ultimates talents rather than 1 so it could be good but at the same time, you’d loose on what makes those ultimate talents good in the first place. I don’t know why they’re slacking though.
Well maybe for pve, especialy for m+. But for pvp every healer having an intterupt is a nightmare…when currently its insanely frustrating to play a class that have to cast alot since every mongo melee have a short cd kick…combine that with pseudo intterupts like mikro cc roar stuns fear etc and add some spicy shaman shear ground into it…Its not fun…pvp needs less intterupts not more, in my biased caster opinion.
Now against a resto druid ill have to deal with roar bash clone kick rake stun and who know what else…
Why can I take Everfrost without Remorseless Winter? This should have the ERW treatment:
“Remorseless Winter deals [3/6]% increased damage to enemies it hits, stacking up to 10 times. Two Rank Talent. If Remorseless Winter is not talented elsewhere on the tree, this grants Remorseless Winter instead.”
And hence, why was the decision made to not be able go back up the tree? Would like to access Acclimation from Horn of Winter and drop a load of the Blood options to get back to IBF.
