Can you explain why?
Because who wants to take maybe 3 hours to make a group and then travel to a dungeon?
2 Likes
Standing in SW and spamming “LFM for SM, need all” for hours…only when you finally get a group together and when about to start the dungeon - sry, gtg. 1 guy leave…and back to standing in SW.
You think people WANT this?! … o boy.
No. Some people(including me) with these TALK TO ME threads. I made many discord friends from m+ pugs simply cause I initiated the convo myself.
Honestly to all this talk to me complainers…what do you want? People to line up in queue to talk to you, the moment you log in?
Can work in the opposite. Didnt pass an item to the GM’s GF? Spreads rumors about you being a jerk, ninja and so forth on the realm
2 Likes
This argument is so overblown it’s ridiculous.
Nobody is spending 3 hours in the LFG system before they can do a M+, and I really do mean nobody.
Yeah but he wants rid of that system that’s what I’m saying
I never use the dungeon finder, not even when leveling. The dungeons i have done while leveling in TWW i did with guildies. Option is still there to manually make a group and go to the dungeon.
Of course! Let me put my feelings about this into a bullet point list to make it easier on my own sanity!
Why I like LFG:
- It’s convenient
- It’s a time saver
- It’s great if you’re not playing a FOTM class and even better if you are playing a underpowered class because you won’t be denied entry to a group simply because of the class you play. LFG is random and I love it.
- Sometimes I just really don’t feel social but I want to play a couple dungeons, one should not omit the other.
- I don’t have to run to the dungeon entrance
- I simply don’t like games that do not have LFG
My first char was a draenei gal back in TBC on an account long since lost, I waddled around doing quests and socializing in town. However, I quit shortly there after because I just couldn’t stand not having a convenient way to get into dungeons. So I went back to playing another MMORPG that had it at the time. I believe it was Tera but I could be wrong, it’s been a long time forgive my shoddy memory.
I truly like the ‘on demand’ dungeons I can run, a simple mouse click, a little waiting and off I go to have fun. I do not think it’s fun standing still and shouting for a group until someone graciously takes me in after god knows how long of doing that. That is not the type of socializing I enjoy.
Take that away from me and it’ll ruin my experience enough to say goodbye to WoW forever.
3 Likes
I will attempt to provide you other perspective at this problem, like if I as a player were to answer the situation:
I don’t care about immersion and never did, even when vanilla was the retail back in 2005. I agree this is up to each other’s tastes so I am not against this argument.
If anything, your proposal will funnel the players who value gameplay and efficiency more towards me which is my profit.
PS as a self-sufficient DK only tank player, to me you all are disposable. 
Solo play is the name of the game across the whole industry, not just wow. Most people don’t like having their options taken from them, which I understand on human level.
The question here is - would people coming back outweigh the people leaving due to such major changes?
There is a record from Blizzard that Looking For Raid is what keeps the lights turned on in raiding, as many people plainly don’t want to engage in coordianted raiding, raiding is sold as market advantage over the competition, and if they removed the largest amount of their customers from raiding, by removing LFR - the top dawgs wouldn’t allow them budgets to create more raids.
The consensus is probably all over the player-board, because I am mythic raider and I am one of the most fervent defenders of LFG/LFR system and also solo-play raids for the story and sightseeing for everyone regardless of their preferences and skills and whatever else. Good luck fighting against that.
My favourite. Please tell me, how would you want to force accountability on me specifically?
The thing is, I am tank player. I dare to say I am good tank player. I am not opposed to PUG plays.
The more accountability you give me, the more I will use the system to meet MY goals even more efficiently. And when I am finished with BIS gear, I would stand in the city, looking at all those LFG spammers looking for tank.
PS it usually takes me week or two out of season before I switch to only cap my vault with best ILVL with my cliques.
PS2 And please don’t get back on with saying that in the olden days it was all sun and rainbows.
I was there, all those years ago. The old wow was just guild clandestine and extortion of the highest order for everyone who wished to also be part of “the main group”.
If anything else, it was extremely sociopathic and over the years, I learned that the classic hardliners are usually people who profitted from being “the bosses” as it has been the only thing in their life where they are not grinded to dust by the real world.
2 Likes
It’s true though. What has been done cannot be undone.
- The village effect is gone because all realms play together now and Blizzard can’t undo it without a massive uproar.
- The novelty of being exposed to people from far away places for the first time in the 90’s and 00’s wore off, and younger generations just grew into such a world where you can casually chat across the globe.
- There are a lot of players who came to WoW in more recent years less interested in the social aspect, for one reason or another. So your chance of finding players who want to socialize is lower.
So maybe you should get on with the times. There are ways to socialize in the current game, but it will never be like it used to be because the game and the community is evolved.
Also
I dare you to find school kids who would rather play marbles than be on their phones. Society changes and adapts. What worked 20 years ago won’t fly today.
4 Likes
No, it’s not true, and that’s another fallacy.
Just because something cannot be undone does not mean that the result of that action cannot be reversed through a new action.
This is an argument often made by people who feel like they won by having changed something, but then get pushback. It confuses the act itself with the consequences of that action.
So make a realm that doesn’t which people can join if they want.
So did I. I was able to connect to people in the United States when I was 8. In fact, I have an album from a band called Grey Eye Glances that had to be imported from Philadelphia because I’d heard it online in 1999 and you couldn’t get it anywhere else.
Thanks dad <3
Anyway, it’s not that which makes WoW magical. What makes it magical is the way you organically discover people. They could be people from your own country; it doesn’t really matter. In the case of the French client, this is the always case. (Canadian French play on US)
It’s true that WoW attracts a different audience when it changes, but that doesn’t mean anything in this debate. If it can be changed away from an MMO and attact a difference audience, it can be changed back into an MMO and attract a different audience again.
Feel free to provide a choice. That’s what Classic was about, but until they work out how to actually make classic World of Warcraft content it’s just not for me. SoD was a swing and a miss, and WotLK->Cata isn’t even a swing in my book. They’re just flailing around over there at this point.
Another fallacy. You’re just blanketing it away with no reason given. “Oh things change.” Okay, what changed? Why wouldn’t the WoW of 20 years ago fly? It flew perfectly fine 5 years ago. Flew better than retail for a good while there, too.
Most kids aren’t allowed a phone because they’ll get completely lost in it. And they’re not playing marbles anyway. Neither was I or any kids at the time. Marbles was never really that fun… they just had to pass the time. They will play tag though, that one never gets old no matter however many phones you give them.
And my nephew loves his Switch and I loved my Gameboy. Same age, same reason. It’s even the same game right now - I played Pokemon Red, he’s playing Let’s Go Eevee. xD
The technology does change, but what’s fundamentally fun really doesn’t. Today we can deliver some experiences we couldn’t deliver then, but the things from back then that were actually good are still actually good. I know several 10 year olds who are completely in love with Heroes 3: Horn of the Abyss. People are still gaming the night away with Chess and Go. Games that are thousands of years old. Like… some things really are just timeless.
But I shouldn’t have to justify this position anyway. You have to justify why WoW wouldn’t work now, and you haven’t even attempted. All you’ve done so far is tell me that the time dimension exists.
1 Like
You are not proving anything either besides having a heavy dose of nostalgia and “listen up here kido, back in my days we had to walk through hot coals to get to school and it was glorious”.
Even if Blizzard creates WoW 2.0 exactly as it was in 2004-2009, there is no guarantee that 12-15M subs will pop up overnight. The markets are different. Go ahead try selling to a Fornight guy a game which takes 1-2 months before you can even reach the endgame(and even thats considered fast)Every product has its rise, peak and decline. Nothing stays at its peak for ever…
I didn’t do either of those things.
it was exactly the same during wotlk with the timear forsees daily quests. LFG just streamlined it. there was no interaction back then either. lfg didnt kill wow’s social interaction, it only made ignoring eachother more efficient.
blame brainlessly easy dungeons and skewed reward systems.
1 Like
People still do
I don’t know about you but i’m in guild
online people 20-30 during day
Most of them are in discord channels talking to each other
hm i’m one of them soooo
i don’t about you but wow for me is the same as it was back in the day.
I had the same experiences since i came back in legion
half of legion and whole BFA,SL and DF i was constantly online on TEAMspeak or discord talking to people.
This is just my personal opinion but can it be that you are the antisocial and created this fake problem for yourself? 
1 Like
Maybe instead of crying about fallacies suggest something you want?
All I’ve seen OP imply is that the game would be better without queueing for dungeons, which I disagree.
All I’ve seen you suggest is letting people section themself off the general pool of players so they can make their own “village”, which to me looks like it’ll be dead on arrival.
So how do you suggest the devs bring back WoW to peak social glory?
I personally doubt its even possible. With limited chating options back then. Speaking to somebody over the webs was something “WoW!!!” Now loging in… after responding to 7 discord pings, 10 whats up messages or whatever other platform, I am not surprised people are actually tired from socialization…
2 Likes
Yes it does lol same for CoD… it will never go back to a casual game now due to streamers and their sheep… What action can Blizzard do to make ppl be social… They’re heading for more solo stuff not less…
There are a lot of reasons. LFD/LFR is one of them, but it really comes down to the structure of the world and how player interaction happens. A surprisingly big one is shared tagging. In Classic, the second you’ve got two people in the same area, they group up and often start talking - why? Because it’s beneficial.
Now if you group up you get fewer items and less XP than you would otherwise. It’s no wonder people don’t.
But that’s just one of a hundred.
I already have. Hundreds of times in fact, but even in this specific thread: A game like vanilla with content being added. It can be a retooled version of retail with a unique server type that changes a lot of rules, or it can be classic or tBC with a constant stream of new content, separate from retail. I don’t really care, both are good. I even cited an exact instance of someone doing it.
But here’s what they shouldn’t do: Create a season system that causes people to have to rush for fear of missing out. That’s one of the cardinal sins of retail.
Don’t lay the blame of the state of CoD at the feet of gamers. That one’s all Kotick.
Game design. If they are educated in their craft, they’ll know how.
Are you kidding me? You were asking for attention by lashing out like that in harsh language like everyone who currently likes things the way they are, are just plebs, beneath you while sounding like an absolute boomer proclaiming “back in my day we didn’t have buses and had to walk 5 miles to school. These kids are so weak.”
Technology, like buses, became more available in these modern times and things changed. Changes are always going to happen. We just have to adapt.
this is a good point, one i never really considered but it totally makes sense.