let the numbers sink then. they can leave, if all they want from mmo’s is instant gratification and constant upgrades on a daily basis. I may not be a classic fan, but if i had to choose the loot system of BFA or classic, i’d choose the garbage classic one instead.
The high end players will gear up in no time, and given how a lot of mythic world first raiders are already above 220 in ilvl just proves that it’s doable, just harder.
and no. You don’t need to do 8~9 hours of daily grinding when you hit lvl 210 or so. That’s when your upgrades come from heroic and above raid, which is once a week, and your vault, which requires you to do 10 dungeons at most, if you’re really really in a hurry to gear up.
you’ll get used to it, or you’ll quit. Either way, the system is better off staying.
I already mentioned how much content i have done with zero upgrades.
That is your definition of not instant gratification and constand upgrades on a daily basis?
Seriously, if i got a couple of items out of all of this it would be instant gratification and constant upgrades on a daily basis?
Then you are a wow masochist/extremist. Either that or you got lucky with your loot and therefore claiming everything is perfect.
Most of is not high end players, im no high end player but i do challenging content and i do go for cutting edge each tier, but claiming good design because people in top 10 guilds are geared is just bad apologetism.
Again, i was 200 ilvl when i opened the vault and i have done 8 hc raid bosses and 1 m+ slot a m+12 dungeon and the tho others +10 dungeons + three pvp slots. And i got no upgrades.
You keep saying that but you dont argue why it is better off staying. How is it better of with people doing A LOT content left with no upgrades?
A good system is a system that makes the playerbase happy. You dont have to spoil the playerbase to make them happy and enjoy the game. You just have to create a system that actually rewards doing content.
A system where people know they will get an upgrade for doing challenging endgame content in huge amounts.
Thats a good system.
Now we have a system where you think “Ok im gonna clear a hc raid this week, im gonna do 10+ m+ dungeons between +10 and +15, and im gonna grind honor at 2k rating and i have to be prepared that im not gonna get any upgrades next reset and im gonna have to be prepared that im gonna recieve no loot / upgrades clearing this content”
for 3 weeks i’ve been playing with a garbage plaguefall heroic dungeon trinket. just yesterday, after doing de other side for like 6~7 times in a row, i finally got an upgrade. No. I wasn’t lucky with loot. I just don’t complain all the time.
Find friends and do challenging contents with them. You’ll be able to trade each other gear, and you’ll get your upgrades really quick. And you can be “Casual” with it as well.
The reason as to why it’s better off staying is quite simple. I won’t even talk about the legendary or conduit stuff, which you’re most likely fine with them as they are anyways.
in an mmo, what makes a piece of loot memorable or important, is when there’s a certain level of scarcity for gear. In bfa, you had gear coming at you from left right and center. In 8.0, i managed to do exactly ZERO mythic+ runs and zero mythic raiding and i had 381 ilvl by the end of it, and back then 385 was mythic raid level loot.
When an overwhelming amount of drops are coming at you from left and right and all of them are upgrades, then there’s no point in pursuing gear anymore. It’s useless. It’s going to be replaced soon enough in the next patch and i’ll just spend a month then, to farm to full afterwards.
It generally makes the whole gearing process pointless and devalues the gear you get and the effort you spend.
And then here we are in shadowlands. I have a 40% chance for a loot when i finish a mythic+ in time and 20% if i don’t. I see that as MORE THAN ENOUGH, for an infinitely grindable content with no weekly cap.
If you want to argue about raids needing a better drop chance, I agree with you. They do need a better drop chance. At this point in time, I see ZERO POINT in doing a single raid boss, apart from maybe a legendary i need from one of them. I’m getting better vault rewards and better and more rewards from mythic+.
But if you want more gear for mythic+, which is what you’re primarily focusing on, it’s MORE THAN ENOUGH. Still too much actually.
Didnt i point it out already: I play with guild and friends, have a raid schedule and progressing hc and doing keys with the same people. That doesnt make me a high end player. High end players are those who are progressing and clearing mythic early this early in the season.
I dont have problems with the legendary stuff, no, and that for someone who got my two best legendaries from last raid boss and world boss who spawned this week.
In ancient mmos. In Classic a epic could be memorable. Now, no matter the itemlevel or the stats, the epic will not be memorable in SL, even if we got them once per month they would not be memorable, even the legendaries are not memorable.
Design of modern day wow isnt made to make a single piece of loot memorable, this “epics has to be memorable” is just a meme.
Whats supposed to be memorable are the synergy all your gear gives you as a whole, your characters power as a whole, your class/specs ability to make the most of itself.
Do you remember MoP for that single wrist purple piece ? I dont, i remember it for good class design especially in pvp.
Epics were memorable only because in Vanilla was the first time we ever saw them, thats why they are memorable. Trying to make them memorable again is like trying to do something impossible: Time travel.
Its like trying to make mobile phones with a camera an unique and memorable thing. They were once upon time in the early 2000s, now they are not, but they are a necessary thing, the same with epic items in wow.
At least 1 thing we agree on.
Doesnt matter if m+ drops more loot, it only drops 203 loot anyway also if you do a +15, wich is at the moment far harder then a heroic raid. In BFA we got 465 gear in the dungeon for doing +15, wich actually could be an upgrade if good stats for a toon on a high itemlevel.
Very soon, it will not matter how much or less loot drops in the dungeon, because 203 will not be an upgrade for many people anyhow.
Conclusion is you have to be very lucky in great vault to gear up, and gearing is more RNG then it has ever been.
Welcome to wow since vanilla. You get no upgrades when you get unlucky.
At least this time around, you can increase your chances by having up to 9 choices for the vault. And you no longer have to worry about a random socket or a random titanforge.
Farming all possible content at ilvl 200 opening 8/9 slots in vault with most choices ilvl 220 should not make it possible to be that unlucky.
It should not be possible to farm content that awards you high level upgrade, just to not get upgrades at all.
How many people you honestly think will be happy about putting in that much effort with little to no reward?
You think they will sit there in euphoria happy about the game design singing #nochanges?
They will just quit. And its not in you or anyone who plays the games interest that massive number of people quit. Blizz lost touch with its playerbase a long time ago, a fact well known, nevertheless we have been loyal to the game, playing it and paying it in its ups and downs, and ive honestly never feel as trolled as ive been doing the last 2 weeks, cause i have done everything possible to upgrade as much as possible.
If something is not rewarding at all, its just not worth doing.
If you get 8 good choices and none are upgrades your gear is pretty good already. This reminds me of people qq’ing about the weekly box a month before SL. You didn’t get an upgrade on your 480+ char? Colour me shocked!
I was itemlevel 200 at the moment. The 223 piece offered had bad stats and i already had 220 in there with bis stats. The same goes for the other 220 items offered, 220 item from before and/or bad stats being a downgrade every single item.
Absolutely. There is no point is even explaining that there is a problem with the system, any one who got lucky (cause that’s all it is) will tell you to work for it cause they barely play the game and are already item level 230 so obviously the problem is you.
I’ve already unsubbed so I don’t suppose it matters much for me but for the sake of others I hope it gets better
People thinking this loot system is fine are crazy or pvpers…
How on earth is spamming 8 hours of dungeons and getting no loot fine?
Then trying to say its like classic which is 100% wrong… classic always dropped loot and it was group loot or master loot… so you always got something in the end!
Current raiding is personal only. Even your guildies cant trade stuff if its above their ilevel!
Dungeons the same but also maybe 2 bits of loot drop if you time it and then you need rng to actually get some!
Then theres the fact doublers… loot you dont need at all… 6 chances of loot you can use vrs one you dont need and you get the one you dont need! The game is more rng than ever.
Bfa you actually got loot for your effort. Blizzard messed up loot being meaningful by making wq drop previous raid tier and making previous raids obsolete! All they had to do was not sky rocket the next ilevel jump and jump it up a bit specially since we have 3 raid levels now… this is NOTHING like classic.
Shadowlands is literally built around pvpers… pvpers will dominate ilevel ranks. The best mythic raiders get paid to play the game obv they will have good gear… most guilds will be stuck on hc.
Mythic+ spamming which is actually more time consuming than raiding is pretty much obsolete unless you have some omega premade that can share loot.
The game feels really unrewarding right now… this with only mega specs getting in high keys makes it even harder for some specs to gear.
They are litterally telling people who cleared hc with no loot, did 10-20 m+ runs with no loot, did rated pvp, all this all day long for only to get offered nothing useful in vault, that they are crying because they are not rained down with epics.
Its tragicomical, exept for only doing 8 hc bosses the above is correct for me, and now the whiteknights in this thread are educating me that im a spoiled child who needs to work for my loot.
Exept i did work for it, with nada rewards.
When more and more people unsub they will ask themselves why i guess.
I mistake it to be two kinds of bootlicking whiteknights in threads like this.
The lucky guy who got luck with loot everywhere, and had items traded to him/her on top of it and also had good luck in the vault.
And the classic fanboys, who are brainwashed from vanilla/classic that “THat Puorple wrist u got shuhld be a wrist piece that is memoraoble kek!!! I reMeMber my WrIsT peice froum vanilla leike it waos yesterday”
Vanilla had alot of terrible gamedesign, but it was the only gamedesign and there were nothing to compare it with exept other mmos, therefore some people tought this was the only way and the best way and are 15 years later buthurt that retail developed with time.
Even worse for 100% pvpers as the bis gear is timegated, tho still you can get bis gear from pve if lucky. I guess reason is pve`ers would be buthurt if they couldnt oneshot in arena with raid/m±gear like bfa.
As i said in my above post, i believe two kinds of whiteknights are defending this. Those who got lucky with loot, and those who are brainwashed since Vanilla tho only argument they have is “Epics are supposed to be memorable”
But they are not. THey were in vanilla because it was the first time we saw them. If we got one SL epic pr month they wouldnt be memorable. That argument is just a meme.
Actually true, its nothing like classic. This is the first time in the games history where you could grind endgame content all day long and still get nada in neither dungeons/raids or the hyped vault.
And its crazy. Doing hc last week there were many incidents where people didnt need their loot, while it was bis for others, but couldnt trade it just because…
The whiteknights actually claim you gear up faster now vs bfa. And they are wrong. And when you prove them wrong they use the “u not supposed to be rained down with epics” argument.
Like we was. I had to spam m+ like there was no tomorrow to get some loot i needed, but i did get rewarded for it. Now i have spammed raid/pvp/m+ like there is no tomorrow without getting nothing, and they say its fine.
No point at this point since m+ only rewards 203 items in the dungeons, in a very short time no one is going to need anything from there. At least in bfa you got 465 from dungeon.
Opposed to what anyone says, m+ is the most challenging pve content there is. Even world first mythic raiders will push a key to the point where they cannot time / complete it any more.
+14/15 is far harder then hc raid.
True unfortunately. It can and will make many many people just unsub. It already has. And it will continue.
I did 10 m+ runs (One +12 and nine +10) - 3/3 m+ slots unlocked in GV.
I farmed honor in rated pvp and unlocked 3/3 slots in GV.
8/9 GV slots unlocked.
Two 213 pieces, one 223 piece, and five 220 pieces where i could choose one.
Guess what, none were an upgrade, zero, none. All the hours i did farming the above for absolutely nothing, nada.
You are delusional if you think anyone who experiences this happily claims that they prefer this. One has to be a crazy classicwow-masochist to even think a percent like that.
People will leave because of it, and you whiteknights will be left in a wow-community that will be the smallest it ever was, it will kill the game for sure if it does not change.
Maybe not kill it, but reduce it to the point where its considered a private server or two.
I have explained how much effort me and others have put in with little to no rewareds.
Yet you whiteknights tell me to work for my loot? I did work for my loot, what part of that is not understandable to the whiteknights?
Just repeating “lol kek gou wourk for ur gear kek u are reined douwn with epics” is all the answer i get when informing i litterally spammed endgame content for 1 week to get the loot.
if i wanted classic i would have went to play classic
and in vanilla loot was not nearly as rare as it is in shadowlands, btw, so go get your facts straight
