i am a member of the guild incarnate , in bfa and legion we had 2 raid teams , 1 for progression and one for casual raiders who some times pugged a few to get enough to raid ,every member enjoyed what they did , now we come to shadowlands no raid or mythic + teams/ only a few members playing mostly farming conduits or mounts or doing dailies and anima farming thats it realy , we keep going so our guild doesnt die we will be glad when this expac die/s thats for sure
Don’t bother with curve, in a couple of months a Sylvanas kill will cost 50k gold anyway.
Not exactly. We are in the “first weeks” of SoD heroic. Most casual guilds have not done more than ~6/10hc yet though so when you try to PUG most people can easily do 10/10normal but for anything above 8/10hc you start driving into walls especially if you haven’t done the boss yourself so you get even less people queued.
It’s the progress of most casual guilds (the bulk of raiding guilds) the main factor which is driving pugging. Right now it’s clear to me (since I raid lead pugs a lot) that most casual guilds haven’t done more than ~8/10hc so when you try to pug sylvanas you hope to get AT BEST 9/10hc people or you may get a few 10/10hc or better but mainly if you also did it yourself so they queue more easily (or more realistically: you will get half-and-half in the raid (especially the healers and tanks are hard to be 10/10)).
Yeah, Sire was like 40k at the end of 9.0
Can you pls finally delete your account and go play ff14
Thats the difference between WoW and FF nowadays.WoW Players treat you like trash and you have to have 10/10 Mythic for 10/10 Normal Bosses while in FF you always have enough “Learning” Groups that inivte New Players to learn the Boss.Its like in RL where you need a Master Degree and 10 years Work Experience as an 20 year old to get an actual job 
the reason is simple
Sylvanas is long like hell fight where most mistakes happen
a)when people are not quick enough in p2
b)in p3
nobody wants to reprogress boss they killed.
you can always join a guild and progress with them - plenty of 9/10 HC guilds recruit atm - hell even guild i raid with is recruiting atm since we have like 16 raiders on good night and cannot progress on first 3 mythic bosses due to lack of people - which we would prefer before progressing sylvanas.
dont be "4/10 man " then ?
any 4/10 man can hit the gym - work out hard for 2-3 years , diet , hit cosmetician / barber , and then easily hit at leat "6/10 man " if not “7/10” man
same is with raiding - join a guild and get experience .
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[quote=“Taurh-aggra-português, post:34, topic:308093, full:true”]
But just because you’re an okay guy, doesn’t mean the rest are.
Yesterday I was on a PUG SoD HC where the raid leader had 203 ilvl, who was demanding ilvl 230 in order to join…he was a dps doing less than 2k.
**The problem is a simple one, PUG’s were never meant to be how you do progression content, that’s what’s guilds are for. **
You don’t want the “stable job” of being in a guild, that’s fine, there’s plenty of more casual-like guild full of people like you, some who might only be able to raid one every week for a 2hours, or who might be raiding and need to stop because their baby is crying or something like that…my guild works like that, we get content done when we get it done, no rush. Guilds are the social glue that keeps this game alive…you login in to chat with people and do fun activities; as a singleplayer game, I really don’t recommend WoW to anyone.
[/quote]
see - be like him
MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP AND LEAD IT
then no curve is needed - not anythign is needed.
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Lol, the times I joined a fresh curve only group in nya’lotha the leader usually(most often a hunter) left after skitra or after maut(if a healer).
Funny part is 9/10 or 10/10 doesn’t mean much due to amount of boosters
I still remember doing HC CN SLG and Sire where everyone supposedly had already killed them, but dieing in first phase over and over and failing mechanics which you already seen in normal.
I can only suggest to join good guild, mine for example has both Mythic and Social raids, if you are good, you can usually join Mythic raiders in their separate HC reclears. I’m sure there are plenty of guilds like that if you look up on wowprogress.
Find a guild that fits your schedule?
I can’t make it 40% of the time and I’m still raiding, our guild killed HC sylvanas last week. You really don’t have an excuse other than “I don’t want to” If you have time to pug raid then you have time to raid with a guild.
That’s a very naive view of the world. Some people have disabilities or are 50 years old or they are children.
Not everyone is a super fit 20 year old super chad like you probably are.
That’s what I actually do. This thread was mostly an interesting remark on the “conundrum” since this was a week I didn’t have much time to raid lead pugs.
Those things go easly-ish for me at least up to ~6/10hc but they take half a day at least to clear so if you have little time it’s still pain.
I don’t have a schedule at all to be honest. My real life job(s) are too freelancer but also occasionally with a lot of work at unexpected moments.
I generally don’t want to commit to ANY gaming that must have me online at specific MULTIPLE hours each certain days each week.
Bruh, I’m in my 30s, I’m fat with a bmi of 34 and I get matches on tinder, lol.
that would be because almost everyone in their 30’s is fat with a bmi of 34 lol.
30’s is when it goes downhill for most people who dont actively look after themselves.
But that’s exactly what I’m saying. Joining a guild is like hitting the gym hard. People can either do that or remain as they are. When they make their choice, they lose their right to complain. People who like being rejected for 40 minutes before they can get into a group should continue pugging. Everyone else should be in a guild.
Even high-rated players can have trouble getting into a group - maybe their spec is considered “dead”, maybe they’re not “the right tank” or whatever. Puggers are weird. I’ve been in a group where the leader rejected literally every tank for over an hour, and only accepted one because we noticed… we’d ran out of tanks to reject. People began repeat-listing and we weren’t seeing new names. To puggers, the population is infinite and they can infinitely reject. That’s why guilds are better - because guilds are finite and every individual player matters. In the pug world you do not matter at all.
Thats why guys in their mid 30’s, should aim for women in the mid 20’s. If women are still single in their 30’s there is probably something wrong with them.
I mean, I created my own groups till I was 10/10, and had more than 100 tries on Sylvanas before I got my curve. That is in my opinion the difference between 9/10 and 10/10 - its the shear amount of pulls and raid-training on the character you play.
Its true that some curves might be bought - but they are quite easy to spot on the first couple of bosses and easy to replace.
Personally I would rather invest in a 10/10 Heroic player than a 9/10 Heroic and 2/10 Mythic player - as they put in the effort on killing Sylvanas.
But yeah groups usually dies at Painsmith - and it takes hours re-making them.
When pugging, I at least spend 30+ minutes, sometimes one hour building a 2/3/9 comp.
If you are not that patient/invested - I suggest that you join a heroic guild or community.
Its does feel 10 x times harder to creating a pug and pugging this tier compared to other tiers and expansions.
I think Bellular explains it quite well :
That would be me.
I did explain my thoughts on why it is Toxic in that post.
The default answer is to join a guild and go through the process of progging SoD HC or get lucky and join a guild that has it on farm and you are playing a class they need for mythic prog.
As we have seen over these past few years though people don’t care for guilds they want to consume the content and when you have done say 9/10 HC and you have a strong understanding of mechanics on sylv and you still get that person demanding a link to Curve thats when those players get salty, because they are not giving them the chance to prove themselves.
Now if there was a simple way of seeing how many times you have pulled sylv on that char IN-GAME that might resolve the problem but then people get upset with their stats being publicly available.
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I mean the amount of people willing to farm in a pug are mostly puggers themselves and maybe alts. There’s little reason to pug it if you’re in a raiding guild. And I’d argue that retention is probably better for players in raiding guilds, so the biggest percentage of players leaving is solo puggers.