Hmm. well that site you linked does nothing. (Ah realised you put spaces in. However it still provides nothing)
I look forward to your “GRAND POST”
You will have to provide hard evidence, and I mean HARD evidence to back-up your claims.
If you don’t then it is just you subjective opinion.
dont see why not? :\ its working for me.
i’ve manually counted nearly 30K characters from over 1K guilds on horde side of ghostlands/dragonblight from armory. thats not subjective. thats blizz’s own data.
@Vintoleth: I read through your linked data. That is one impressive piece of detective work, I must say. salutes
That argument has been debunked to death. Give it a rest.
Because everything after ulduar was bad.
There are no people who consider Ragnaros and Lich King among the best fights ever.
No people who consider MoP the most fun expansion in class design.
And of course the Legion bandwagon is fake news too.
Or it’s not like any of us were stupid teenagers who had a lot of time when TBC and WotLK was a thing and we had to quit the game until we actually get our life sorted out to a point where we can now finally come back into the game and enjoy the world we loved once again.
No, everything went bad after Ulduar. You heard it here first.
U can only debunk something with facts. There are no facts to prove he is wrong. Only opinions…
You don’t get to decide when someone else can or cannot share their thoughts on the forum. Blizzard does, and the fact that she can post makes your post unwarranted.
You want facts that prove he’s wrong? How about the record-number of people watching Classic WoW on Twitch? How about the fact that after 14 years Classic WoW is still in incredibly high demand?
“Classic was great because it was new” is an incredibly incorrect thing to say.
Fire Ion H.
The dude lacks fresh creative ideas.
His only children are failed grind systems.
I wouldnt say fire as i dont like to mess up with people’s income.
But the truth is wow is declining
the truth is that classic servers are a thing because of current dev team failing.
I cant believe that classic would be a thing if live wasnt failing this hard, why would you want to go back if present was as good but that is only my opinion.
We just faced Kil’freakin’jaeden we should be excited, instead we want to go back to kill boars cause the game was so much better as a MMORPG.
For all of this, Ion should be moved to another project and someone else should be brought to recapture the World of Warcraft feeling.
Great topic and thread. Never seen this before. Glad someone is asking the important questions.
People asked for all the things you mentioned, they got it, and now they’re complaining, what do you expect blizzard to do?
They listened to the majority, made a product that took a year, or two, finally put the final touches to it, released it, and people were unhappy, you want them to shut down the servers, and let us wait?
No, blizzard is in a tight spot because people are so indifferent to their own mistakes, the players asked for everything the game has to offer right now, and now that they’re sad about it blames blizzard. I’d be pretty confused myself, and as I am one single individual without a reputation, I can say you guys are literally delusional, stop demanding things you will regret later on, and then blame it on them, you are pathetic!. Blizzard can’t do that, as they will see loads of adult kids scream and cry.
90% of all players are like if you put asmongold’s weirdness and blatant broken logic together with soda’s obstreperous behaviour. Its a bad cocktail, and nobody seems to notice.
@Jinsk: Right now, that is not true. I cross referenced the top 10 CP users monthly stats. At current speeds, at least nine of them will beat the 10th spot result from April, in fact, in addition to myself, three others have already done so… What is even more important is the fact that several of them are doing so despite having taken a large number of days “off”. I ran, because I was curious, time adjusted records for them and the end result was unanimous, all 10 people on the current top 10 are reporting activity growth. Which means that for the servers I and they play on, the worst possible overall result is no growth. Individual servers may still be seeing losses, as the combined results do not allow me to run server specific numbers for that piece of data.
I think I will also run my minimum amounts for US and EU calculations again and see what that aspect of information says about the more overall situation… 
and painful. like i said above, had to manually find the 1000+ guilds, mostly on wow’s guild finder tool, then trawl through all 30K players 
while i think i do agree with you, wowprogress has lumped HM and BRF together, but this still sorta shows the same data. for HM&BRF 143 unique guilds were taking part. for uldir, 64 took part. but in BoD, only 43 took part AND (without going through them) i would think that most who raided in BoD had raided in uldir, so that number still wouldn’t be much higher than 64. so its still down from 143 to 64~.
for CoC (is that what we’re calling it? thats handy as CoS makes me think first of culling of stratholme), you are right, it is only 2 bosses, but its short time should make more people look at it. even i came out of raiding retirement (no progression since ICC) and helped our guild clear it on opening week. the fact that we also one shot it (n) means it could be a source of loot for guilds who aren’t as interested in BoD cause of its length.
Well I double checked tonight as when Trew says there is good data then I respect that.
Yes, you have good data for your realm look-up. I was tired and must have just skimmed through it.
You have my apology.
lol no apology needed ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Twitch numbers huh? Thats like the worst thing to look at. Big streamers will check “new stuff” out. Guys like Lirik, Shroud etc will inflate the numbers. Guys that have a steady viewing base no matter what game they play. Yet whont play the same game for longer stretches of time.
The same guys played a game like Atlas when it was new. That game pushed 250-350k viewers consistently in januari 2019. Feel free to check the viewers now… it struggles to push 200 viewers.
“Classic was great because it was new” is true since at that time MMOs wherent mainstream. So a big group of people played wow as their first MMO experience. For them (that includes me) it was a new experience.
You didnt have good alternatives those days with big online communities etc. So for a lot of people this was it in terms of playing a big online game.
And i think thats the main reason it whont last. A lot of the veterans like me grew up and have families/ rl to take care off. So we will check it out but we whont commit as much as we used to.
For newcomers its not a super attractive game since there are better alternatives these days.
I predict it starting out well, but dying out a lot faster than back in the days.
Okay, let’s look at reported numbers then.
Vanilla private servers have had hundreds of thousands of players for years now. If those players all, or for the most part, go to retail vanilla then it’ll be a success and it’ll last for many years, like how it has done already.
“Classic was great because it was new” Is a terribly incorrect statement nomatter what way you put it. The game was simply designed better in a lot of ways than how retail is today. Take away the quality of life features retail has and you’ve got nothing left while Classic barely has any of them to begin with and has a strong concept and design at its core. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it was perfect. It definitely wasn’t.
Name one that gives as engaging an experience as Classic WoW does that’s not Runescape.
Most, no, none of them have never reached anywhere close to how many player that WoW has had.
Before you mention Final Fantasy which claims to have 14 million subs and be the worlds second-largest MMORPG – They don’t. Those are ‘Registered Accounts’, including free trials and the like. I’ve tried to find actual active account numbers but the numbers seem to vary from 600.000 to 800.000 in the sources that I came across, that’s being generous actually.
Nostalrius on its own, a PRIVATE server had 150.000 active players and 800.000 registered accounts.
Imagine competing with a 14-year old game that “was only great because it was new”.
FFVIX was released in 2013, meaning that after being live for 6 years they have yet to hit 1 million active players. Heck, even if i’m completely wrong about the 600k-800k players then FF is still nowhere near to what World of Warcraft had at 6-years old.
WoW hit 1.5 million active players in Q1 of Classic alone. 8.5 million in Q1 of TBC, keeping around 11.5 million active players throughout Wrath and eventually hitting a peak of around 12 mill in Cataclysm.
“WoW was great because it was new”, if that was really the case then they would have never been able to reach anything close to such numbers and manage to not only sustain but grow them for almost 7 years straight – only for them to decline because they changed their design philosophy away from what Classic was and to be aimed more towards casual players, “quality of life” changes, removing tons of content and limiting player choice aka the almost complete opposite of what Vanilla WoW is at its core.
Let’s go back to what Final Fantasy did and call out the number of total accounts ever created to make another comparison.
In 2014 Blizzard published an infographic in where they showed off their achievements in numbers.
(see here: media . wow-europe . com/infographic/en/world-of-warcraft-infographic . html Remove the spaces ofc, I can’t post links otherwise)
In their 10 years as an MMORPG World of Warcraft had reached 100 Million unique accounts, including Trial accounts (Just like FF). Compare that to the 14 million that Final Fantasy gained in the 6 years that they have been live.
I predict a large number at release just as any expansion would have and then slowly stabilizing over time and sustaining a decent number for a while, possibly years – that is unless they completely mess it up, but that wouldn’t be “Classic WoW”'s fault at that point.
In the eyes of the classic community it seems blizzard messes up by using the real numbers instead of the private server numbers = easier game.
So what do you mean with mess up ? People will call it wrong anyway
I think your post is spot on but we gotta talk about something here.
What they did towards wotlk with all the dificulties within ICC, LFG and then in Cata with LFR was indeed aimed for the most casual players.
What ended up happening, and im amazed that they didnt take account of this, was those same players at some point felt they “completed” the game and started to leave untill the next “LFR” wing came back.
From that it was a snowing ball where blizzard checks data and not human behavior or doesnt even look to the past.
If you make the game too casual, casuals will leave. If they leave the backbone of most guilds/pvp its then compromised cause they make up for the large maiority.
WoW did well cause it was a ecosystem where both casuals and hardcore had a place, the burning crusade captured it perfectly, wotlk took it overboard and cata finished the real world of warcraft mmorpg.
That is my opinion.
To all who say classic will drop from viewers, of course it will but it wont be like the statement above.
We are talking about a game that without social media in current form pushed 6 million players, the game was designed to have fun in any type of content you do, even leveling.
It was designed to be hard but fullfilling.
But time will tell.
Me and my friends (who mostly pvp) are abandoning wow live when classic comes (around 60 people). i think we wont be the only ones.
Note: we are arena players, yet we are deciding to leave arena to go play a true mmorpg… if it was TBC live would die off after 6 months, specially in the competitive pvp scene.