"You were followed!" "I followed THEM"

Lore Story
61

:joy::rofl:

My rogue and warlock are both UD :kissing_heart:

62

The Deathstalkers might’ve been sent to spy on Thrall, not necessarily kill him

And when they saw Saurfang there, they attacked them, as dealing with a traitor :slight_smile:

That’s another possibility

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63

Well … the stench that 2 invisible undead assisns left betrayed them.

64

Here’s a quick lesson in story telling:
If a character claims something and the claim is never challenged, then the claim is true.
Neither Thrall nor ANYTHING else in the cinematic pointed towards Saurfang lying, which means he wasn’t lying.

As for the apparent convenience of Saurfang ending up in Outland at the same time as the Rogues, and was able to follow them?
Welcome to fiction. Fiction is full of conveniences like this.
If you’ve followed the story long enough to become Sylvanas zealots, you should have realized by now that Blizzard excels at telling set pieces, not stories. Saurfang being able to tail the 2 Rogues was necessary for the cinematic, so that’s what happened.

65

These “conveniences” are totally killing my suspension of disbelief. I could turn the blind eye if those were rare.

I don’t agree with the assumption it wasn’t challenged in the cinematic. Simple logic challenges everything Saurfang said. He either did lie because otherwise, everything that happened in cinematic does not make any sense or otherwise if he said the truth, people who wrote this scene wanted to push this narrative even if it violates the common sense of WoW characters.

To be honest, people may just hate Saurfang and it doesn’t have to do anything with Sylvanas. Both Saurfang and Baine are being forced so much that you may hate them regardless of what you think about Banshee.

2 Likes
66

this may have been said already but it’s possible that Saurfang wasn’t following the Rogues directly, like he may have found out where they were going and went to head them off, which could also explain why he seemed unaware of them being there before they gave themselves away

67

All of you (i think i never read all the topic) miss the real point about this video. Where damn is Zappyboi??

68

As much as I appreciate your lesson, its not near a valid argument.

If you recall Saurfangs path, he left Stormwind, moved into the Swamp after crossing Redridge and now we see him at Outland, Nagrand.

If you open your wow map that would mean his goal, was to go there thats why he followed this path to go to the Dark Portal in the Blasted lands.

So for somebody who has been a prisoner in SW to suddenly discover and follow two UD assasins, it really does feel unlikely. It would implie that he knew of said assasins BEFORE he was imprisoned, which further implies how much of an accomplice he was to Sylvannas before he was imprisoned.

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69

They cheated too, saw how many times they used Vanish ?

70

These rogues in the trailer were not even 1.5k rated ,what do you expect…

Probably they were not even having CC in their actionbar.

71

Dead on a sidewalk somewhere

72

Where have you been? This entire god forsaken expansion has been “violating common sense”
Sylvanas in particular has been turned into a mustache-twirlingly evil cartoon villain, while all the other Horde NPCs have become mindless stooges who took ages to get off their backsides and oppose her.

As I said, convenience. Saurfang knew Thrall would go to Outland, either because the plot demanded it, or because these two have known each other for a very long time, meaning Saurfang might have deduced that that’s where Thrall would go.
And when he arrived on Outland, he ran into those 2 Rogues and decided to tail them.

Sure it’s convenient, but again, welcome to story telling, and Blizzard brand story telling in particular.

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73

That’s not how it works.

If there was a relation between that and the truth, the following scenario should also be true. Imagine you are (and this is going to be a ridiculous example, but bear with me) the sole survivor of an enormous disaster on Earth, and aliens (told you, it’s ridiculous) would come and ask you about Earth, does that mean that everything you say is true, since no one or nothing would be able to challenge your claim?

Everyone can lie. Remember that these characters are like us, sentient beings - they have a reason to do things, and every word they utter serves a goal. That goal might be to inform someone, or to convince or persuade someone, and sometimes that goal might have to be reached by telling a lie. And even WoW characters might do so.

I agree with the rest of your post and your general point, but just wanted to… well, nitpick this.

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74

Anduin has said that Saurfang escaped. No one has contested it. Therefore it is true.

:crazy_face: :crazy_face:

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75

I think what this cinematic ultimately proves is that warrior/shaman > rogue. :slight_smile:

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76

Go home Dwarf! You are drunk

77

We’re talking about fiction, not real life. Say what you described happened in a book. In that case, there could be subtext or internal monologue to hint that I’m lying, or the aliens could have subtext / internal monologue showing that they doubt what I told them. If things like that are present, then it’s possible that I’m lying. But if they are absent, then I’m telling the truth.

In the case of this cinematic, there would have been something like a hint in Saurfang’s body language or facial expression, a suspicious camera angle or any other cinematic technique. None of it is present, so Saurfang was not lying.

You can go through thousands of stories, thousands of plot twists, and you will see that it’s completely consistent. You’re almost never going to see any kind of lie or deception that wasn’t foreshadowed by the scene the lie/deception happened in.
It’s easy to see why, too. If an author simply wants to have a character state a fact, then there’s no point in adding extra intrigue and flourish to the text/scene.

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78

I pulled him away from that plot. I told him that it’s not safe here and that he should step up when more reasonable story comes in.

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79

Here’s some more stuff to think about:

Saurfang and Thrall had their initial chat, after which Thrall turned around and walked a few paces towards his anvil. The Rogues then go in and attack not just Saurfang, but Thrall as well.

By this point, no agreement had been reached between the two Orks - there’s no telling whether just this much would have been enough to convince Thrall. And yet the assassins attacked Thrall anyways.

Not only does this support Saurfang’s claim being true, but even if he WAS laying about tailing the Rogues, this still shows Sylvanas being uselessly evil.
The Rogues still had orders to kill Thrall anyways. Sylvanas either told them to A) kill Thrall, period, B) kill Thrall if Saurfang made contact with him or C) kill ANYONE who Saurfang makes contact with. Guess what, all 3 of these possibilities are - as I said before - uselessly evil.

Setting aside the hilarious stupidity of sending 2 random Rogues to kill effing Saurfang and Thrall, their assassination attempt pretty much guaranteed Thrall joining Saurfang’s cause. The situation went from one of the greatest heroes of the Horde rebelling against her to THE two greatest heroes of the Horde rebelling against her.
“Sylvanas is no Garrosh” yeah, no kidding. Garrosh still had a functional brain, even in his delusions.

2 Likes
80

Give the poor girl a break!
As an undead, usually the brain and other soft organs rot away first…
After all, every Forsaken’s fate is the Mindless state
( The Forsaken mindless state is described as one slowly losing their mind and becoming a mindless zombie. Gretchen Dedmar describes feeling a cold chill from the Plague of Undeath, as a sign, it is to soon be upon her. Once the mindless state has been reached, she states she will no longer be able to aid the cause of the Forsaken. The mindless state seems similar to a form of senility for the Forsaken, however much more severe.)
Poor Sylvie finally lost it
It started around when she ordered the whole Wrathgate thing… and now? Was quite a ride!
That bullet in the head (thx Godfrey) just made her situation worse I guess

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