It is. Have you seen how many bots there are in the world? Did you not pay attention to the forum threads about AV bots when AV was the meta?
There’s no “positive” thinking because what you want doesn’t exist. The Vanilla experience was different for each person, some of them contradict each other entirely.
Vanilla existed as multiple phases, similar to what we have now. True Vanilla was the first phase for some, True Vanilla was the last phase to others. You can’t have both phases at the exact same time.
They have, and TBC fixed a lot of the things wrong with Vanilla. However, people campaigned for Vanilla, for a recreation of a game they can’t play any more, as a monument to history.
Which is why I want Classic to stay the course, with as few changes and tweaks as possible. I also don’t believe for one minute that altering the game will force people to play how they used to.
If people have a playstyle in their mind, telling them not to do it doesn’t work, they’re determined to see it through.
Okay dude that was a stupid take. An extremely stupid take, in fact.
It’s literally not hard once you’ve got some decent players with good gear. Every non-premade is a free win anyway and every other premade is almost a free win (usually one of the premades rolls over the other…), just a tad more challenging, or a straight up loss if you’re getting rolled over by the other premade.
I’m not saying premades shouldn’t be allowed, cause it’s clearly intended and thus fine… but to say playing in a premade is harder (when you actually want to win) is just utter nonsense.
To me i dont believe you cant make them play as they used to.People want rules to follow so they dont abuse the game.If you are smart game manager you can think something to do.If you are a bit lazy you make it as it is now and people cry in the forums fairly though
Was it possible to queue as a premade into WSG and AB in Vanilla? Yes.
Should it be possible in Classic? Yes.
Did people do it in Vanilla? Yes, but on a much smaller scale.
Should people do it less in Classic? Ideally, but thats just simply not gonna happen. Everyone wants to “speedrun” the game and be as time efficient as possble, therefore, get into a good premade and just brainafk spam the same BG(s) for hours on end.
I don’t really like it either, but I accept it, simple as that.
Tbh i agree, but one tweak to bg’s will help enormously imho, all that classic needs. I do not think pve needs to even be touched.
However pvp has been an issue since P2. Im not even sure what blizzard can do definitively to sort this out? What i would say though, is they should have a lot of old data to trawl through to get it right. Just a small tweak to fix this mess atm re bg’s.
Edit* dude you are a clever person, again physically test it out, collate some data on bg’s? I really would love to hear what you would have to say with experience on this topic?
Man am not a game manager and i knew phase 2 will result people camping flightpaths ofc blizzard could do somthing but this #nochanges nosense destroy vanilla.I dont ask for changes like barber shop and idiotic stuff that some people asking here and you dont know if they are serious or trolling but some changes should be happend since the game is old and it must been fixed so it can been abused.
If Blizzard implimented a solo play system, premading WOULD be harder. That is what I said.
If solo play came about, all those premades that you roll over would join the solo queue, leaving the premade queue as only the good premades.
That isn’t a stupid take, that’s a reality. It happens in every game.
That’s not true, people abuse the game all the time. How many people abused layer hoping? Some even abused it to reset dungeons at the last boss. Not everybody is going to go to such extremes as using bots and outside programmes, but bending the rules is exactly what people do whenever they can.
Easy fix, remove the ranking system.
The problem with said easy fix, is that the ranking system is a core feature of Classic. That problem gets fixed with TBC.
I will be honest, i do truely believe that what Blizzard learned back in the day was (if anything) not to rush into changes.
As you say, one change leads to another, then another etc.
Unless subs start to drastically fall then i dont think anything will b changed imho. We can all debate on these fourms till our hearts are content.
But… and here is the but… why cant they tweak something and foresee the impact it could have elsewhere in the game down the line? Surely they still have a huge amount of data on this from vanilla?
I do not understand why they cant tweak pvp classic and nip everything else in the bud with a simple one fix? I.e like two/three changes at once maximum to stop and shut most ppl up on these forums.
You said it already is. Now you’re speaking of… if Blizzard would change things, which they wont so that argument is kinda, useless.
But I’d still doubt it because premades, even then, would 99% likely be the most efficient way to farm honor/hr - since solo queue games almost always take way longer than premade games, even if you’re losing vs another premade… you can just afk and let the other team win and boom, queue for the next while the solo queue guys sit in a 20min game and might still lose in the end.
But again, thats all ifs and buts and doesn’t matter.
The argument is indeed useless, but that was the direction of conversation.
Long story short: I said premading in a premade only queue would be harder than solo queue.
After a few “lol idiot” comments from randomers, Digweed wanted me to prove said statement and/or validate it with my own experience.
My own experience, without this system in play; of an older version of the game (not today’s concede-after-first-fight meta) was that premading against premades was more difficult than randoming vs randoms.
“Fixing” premades in PVP by creating a seperate queue would screw the honor farm meta up. To not screw with the meta and people’s playstyles, in order to implement a solo queue, the amount of honor earned in that queue would have to be significantly lower then the premade queue.
If that were the case, casuals wouldn’t ever be able to compete with premades and also puggers wouldn’t be able to play with friends without creating an entire team: so people would still complain.
There’s absolutely nothing that can be done that would stop people from complaining.
Of course it would. Premades would have to actually play the game instead of farming defenseless pugs on the graveyard. They won’t be able to instantly give up against other premades to face the next pug faster anymore. Thats the reason people are in favor of premade vs premade queues.
There are good and bad players on both sides. There can be easy premade vs premade games and there can be close pug vs pug games. The problem is that 15 coordinated players with voice chat, the perfect composition, all consumables and very good gear are matched with 15 players who are randomely thrown together. They just want to have some fun and play some fairly matched games like they did back in vanilla but get stomped on the graveyard in 29 out of 30 games. No one would complain if you meet a reasonable amount of premades but the current situation has nothing to do with what vanilla was like.
Thats just not true. Decent premades would still make much more honor than solo players. The players who are on top now would still be on top with a premade vs premade queue system. The only players who would get hurt by this are terrible premades who dodge out of every game against other premades to face the next pug. And pug players would be able to finally play the game at all. By the way, the dodge meta could even be considered to be against the TOS. Premade vs premade queues would also fix that problem.
It’s impossible to stop complains totally. That doesn’t change the fact that we can discuss improvements to a totally broken situation that would bring the game closer to vanilla.
For all the people not happy about the situation gotta realise that you will be able to achieve much more by actually playing together with others instead of just trying to do everything on your own. This is also the case about BG’s. I mean even just 5 people queueing together can win you a WSG if you are against a bad premade. But if you really insist on solo queueing you will have a much better experience by doing it from like sunday to tuesday where all the good players usually are honor capped. Also, this issue will become less of a problem as time goes on because there will be less rankers.
I do get that it can be frustrating if you have 1 hour to play and just casually want to chill with some BG’s before logging. Sadly that’s just the state of the game, it’s way less casual friendly because of the meta and a lot of people hardcore and effecient mindset.
I think what I dislike the most about the current state is you usually don’t get good premade versus premade games. Games are decided by the initial BS fight or the first cap in WSG because thats what’s best when it comes to the honor per hour - which of course boils down to the vanilla honor system being so scuffed as it is.
No excuse in 2020 to have a pvp system that matches pugs with premades. If you enjoy this then I don’t see how you could claim you actually want to PVP.
No it wouldn’t because the most efficient way of farming honor for them would be to just give up after losing the first big fight and vice-versa to re-queue as fast as possible.
