About AV again (civilized discussion)

I know it’s hopeless, but let’s try to make a civilised discussion about it. Please read FULLY, before commenting.

I argue that the current state of AV is not enjoyable for the majority, and therefore some changes are needed to be done in a manner that is not in contradiction with the spirit of game #nochanges implementation by blizzard.

So this is yet another thread about the state of AV, but not a whine post. The current composition of AV teams is the following, depending on the weekday and the actual hour of the day (from horde perspective, so possible bias here):
-Alliance: premade (~80% of the time)
-Horde: PuG (95%+ of the time)

This will result in the following win chances:
-Horde PuG vs Alliance premade: 90% loss
-Horde PuG vs Alliance PuG: 99% win

Now, let’s pretend for a minute that there are players with similar attitude on both sides:
-Ranker players
-Low rank players (Casual / for fun / for reputation players or something else)

Is this enjoyable on a scale of 1-5?

  • (A) Rankers: YES, 5. They will win probably 90%, in 8 minutes in premades.
  • (H) Rankers: Yes and no, 3. They lose most of the time, but get honor still.
  • (A) Low rank players: HELL NO (-10). No one wants to play without the chance to win, and these players lose 99% of the time. They cannot participate in premades because they cannot rank up (casuals lacking time, others now winning enough to rank up etc), they cannot win b/c there are no puller rank players playing with them. They always start with <<40 players vs ~40 horde. No honor or rep for them, so nothing to play for. This will result in players leaving AV or wow altogether.
  • (H) Low rank players: Not really (1). From fun perspective, you mostly know the outcome of the game by the time you leave the game (win vs PuG, lose vs premade). It would be better to have an overall 50% win ratio (or at least closer to that), but they are still better off than (A) counterparts. It’s not really enjoyable, but at least there is some reward.

Now, if the argument is that, because of horde racials players who are interested in PvP rolled horde, we get that the ratio (A) rankers should be lower than the ratio of (H) rankers. This means that among rankers, the majority of players will enjoy it less and a minority enjoys more. This also means that among low rank players, the same is true.

Preventing alliance to exploit premade AV (clever use of game mechanics that is CLEARLY not intended, since there is no option for joining as party) will prevent the leak of good puller alliance players from (A) Pugs, and therefore make the game less predictable, thus more enjoyable. The win ratio should average ~50% on the long run and deviate from it in the short run based on variations in the game-meta. This should be done with the least amount of changes, and the least amount of game mechanic changes thereof. Instead, mostly changes in non-game meta (by non-game meta I mean like changes in the blizz launcher, changes in the game interface design, changes in how the game works e.g. GY spawn honorless buff etc)

Why keep it as is, and keep only a minority of the player content? If we can make non-game meta adjustments without changing the core mechanics and hurting the spirit of “vanilla”, are there any arguments not to do so? (ofc I am referring to AV numbers visible, no deserter buff upon leaving the Q, game starts even if <30 players on one of the sides).

Keep it up Actiblizzard if you want to kill your player base and lose $$$. #nochanges b/s.

Full disclosure: I am playing on a horde minority PvP sever, but I don’t feel like I should have revenge for P2, so nor should you. Therefore, please no P2 horde griefing BS arguments.


The main issue is faction balance, we are fine with “fixing av”, but dont band aid the cause, fix the consequence. Imposing faction balance is the only fair solution for all. Its simply not fair to fix the only negative consequence of being on the high pop faction and ignore all the in game advantages


Honestly, no one knows how to post-fix faction imbalance for sure. If you can only partly resolve then not to resolve at all? Also, there is still the disadvantage of 30 min+ Qs. Is that not a severe one? Also, the only downside I feel as a horde minority Pvp sever player is outdoor bosses. For real, this is it…

Faction specific queues to get onto the server

1 Like

And how does that solve the issue that more horde players are into Pvp? Horde will still have Qs and all the issues AS WELL AS not able to log in and play Pve, whereas alliance will have insta Qs and all the current symptoms.

Don’t go down the rabbit hole.
Your topic was doomed the second Mando replied.


He plays on my server. I can handle him :slight_smile:

1 Like

I very much doubt this so called “horde inclination to pvp” is nearly as big a factor as people make it out to be

Then tell me something. If it’s not severe, why was it so that in the beginning horde Qs were really short? In the beginning there was no horde dominance at all. However, during the quick games of the first few days most interested alliance players got the AV rep and quit playing AV. Ever since then Qs are lengthening which means more and more alliance is missing from the balance.

This either comes from AV being alliance favored (they were more successful in the beginning, so left more rapidly, destroying AV interest balance), or that they are in general less interested in Pvp. Which is it do you think?

1 Like

Not to mention a small % will have a full group AV.
While others are quitting en mass because the premades are destroying their AV’S.

Just forget it man, cancel your sub and move on. I did that and no regrets.
This version has nothing to do with vanila wow pvp, its a joke on pvp players

This was already included in the OP as an issue.

Yes i realise that.
This was an add to why queue’s are long compared to the start of BG’s.

Because all the games were short.

Now also 90% of the games are short. How is it relevant to the OP?

1 Like

Solution: Quit the game already.

If you quit the game right now, we will have less hordes, queues will be shorter for horde and more even for alliance, premading in AV will be either less viable for alliance or possible for both factions.

So, the solution is there: quit the game, help the community. Thank you very much.


Bad troll is bad. Telling one to quit the game is non-constructive. Please keep it constructive.

1 Like

AV map favors horde defense and also favors alliance premade rush.
That’s why alliance is forced into premades and horde pug forced into defense.

So if you want to fix the win ratio then you need to fix the AV map first, which would make AV a completely different BG and that obviously never gonna happen (not even in retail.)

Anyway it is still possible to get AV exalted with alliance by simply afk-ing or mindlessly mid fighting till the game is over. It takes no more than one or two weeks.
Alliance pug will still sign up until all exalted then as the playerbase progresses the number of alliance pugs will drop significantly.

That also means for horde, AV will be about more against premades with increased queue time.
So horde will be forced to do what alliance pug does now: afk till exalted then quit AV.

Eventually AV will die off: less alliance pugs will increase horde queue time and the chance to face premades, that will make less horde signing up after being exalted, that will make alliance premades less efficient (longer queues) until everybody quits.
The system cannot be fixed now.
If you remove alliance premades then alliance rankers will find a different way to grind honor and AV will just die off faster.

One more thing:
50% overall chance to win ratio will not motivate more players to join if it is not 50% on an individual level.
And it’s a dynamic system that changes in time.
So even if the system itself is perfectly balanced, the participation of the playerbase is not, so there will be hours when you can’t win a single game with alliance and there will be hours when you can’t win with horde.
So the chance to win ratio for an individual could be anywhere between 0 to 100%.
(I’m not talking about personal skills but any other aspect of the game that is not depending on that person.)

The only solution would be to completely even out chances and that only possible with mixed teams: if the system evens out players not by faction but by classes, roles, ranks, gear lvl, etc. then you can create a close to 50% win chance for an individual.

1 Like

Make faction specific ques.
Server’s faction minority online = cap.
The faction above that amount is set on que.

Problem solved.

Ah, yeah, you do not want to fix thegame in general and remove THE MAIN PROBLEM of all that crap, you want to fix your HORDE problem only.

1 Like

Then just don’t play it, nobody’s forcing you to.