I agree and that’s my point. People claim Alliance lose because the map is unbalanced, but that is not the reason they lose now. The reason is that winning takes to long time for the faction with short queue compared to the faction with long queue. So people that are motivated and care about rank doesn’t queue for AV on alliance. So all you have left is unmotivated players that only care about the rep. And when you only care about rep your main goal is to not have long game. Better to lose fast than to win slow.
No, sorry, that isn’t what I meant by it. I mean that since the BG is decided with PvP, and the first clash is the greatest way to get a read for which side is the stronger one, it thereby sets the tone for the rest of the BG.
So if Alliance would start aiming for slow games, you can’t ignore what happened that led to that point. Which is them losing every fight up to that point where they’re pushed back. That’d just indicate them getting farmed instead of being able to push the Horde back, if they defend.
But there are ways to render disadvantages powerless, like for example sending “strike teams” to cap stuff in the horde side of the map, to force the Horde to run back to take it back and so on. But because Horde tends to defend their side with a small team, you’d need a strike team able to defeat that small defense.
There are many ways to go about it, but having everyone just turtle isn’t really going to accomplish the same vs. the Horde as it has done vs. the Alliance.
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That is true, if people really would start again to aim for victory there would not be this kind of posts but posts AVs taking too long, Resulting a small amount of players called real PvPers happy as they get to enjoy they like the most of the game a PvP.
AV is great field of a batlle, by trying one tactic over and over again and then calling people to sit on a harpy cave aint goin to fix this problem so you have to itself work a way to fix it instead asking big guy Blizzard to chance the game more your liking.
In this post have been told several tactics to counter the Hordes strike against Alliances walls like collecting a strike team, mages aoe bombing team, conquering the Middle point of the map SFGY there fore leaving horde have to fight of it… Mostly people just tend to ask Blizzard that they want and that way slowly ruining the game for others of us
I just want to point out that Alliance have won the initial clash in my last 4 AVs. They had 300+ HKs when Horde had aroud 100hk max, they where much better, but we just continue to defend the flags HARD because we know that most of them will go passive after a while and they always do. I have 100% win rate on my alt so far. That’s not due to some details in a map. Horde have no afk leechers at all that I can see and you see maybe half the Alliance team around. That’s the reason we win 100%. It’s basically 2:1.
This is when the whining beings in /bg and people gets distracted
Ok, well that’s just them losing to their lack of willpower in that case.
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And then crawling here to cry that the map is bad and needs to be fixed as they are not getting the victory easily, As you see there is always something wrong everywhere else than himself
Exactly, this is my point. They don’t want to win slow. It’s not worth it to win slow for alliance but it’s worth it for horde who have 1h25min queue.
It’s not the map that makes them lose. It’s the queue and reward system and the fact that AV is all about defense and long games.
No it is that they just do not want to win enough.
The faction with short queue can lose in 3 ways. They can WIN slow, lose slow or lose fast. And by lose I mean lose Honor per hour compared to WSG/AB.
That means that the faction with long queue will win (or lose less) if they defend hard. Simple. Nothing to do with map BALANCE, but it’s a consequence of the DESIGN (AV is designed to have long games) with the queue and reward system.
I wouldn’t really say it’s that simple though. It probably goes something like how there are some complaining about the cave distance (which is a non-issue), which destroys the morale, and then you get those who thinks the BG is taking too long and /afk out. So on and so forth.
They’re just doing their own self-fulfilling prophecy in those cases.
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You are right, If they are not willing to take the effort for victory then they should not be crying for not gaining it
I agree. But there are MANY variables in this equation. Map balance MAY have -A- part in the equation.
But the cave location and physical map design is irrelevant. Classic is a recreation of Vanilla and the cave had that location in every patch and version of Vanilla and Classic is a recreation of that.
No. It’s decided 100% with PvP. Homogenization ruined refail. Don’t need it in Classic.
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Wise words! Keep the game unique and interresting!
Big brainstormin’. Much wow. 
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You mean other than the fact that Alliance have never had a high winrate in slow games on this version of the map? Not in Classic, not in Vanilla and not in early TBC.
How is map design irrelevant? That’s a completely assinine statement. So for example if the Horde starting cave was in Dun Baldar that would still be irrelevant?
Because we are playing a recreation of a game. You can’t change maps in a recreation of a game. You can however tweak queue systems, fix bugs and exploits and such. But you can’t change a map in the name of balance.
Do you remember when Brack said you think you do but you don’t? Yeah, here we are. People proving him right every day on this forum.
They could tweak respawn systems. That on it’s own would help a lot.
Correct. Like for example all the Horde not liking the fact you could premade in AV despite the fact it was possible and quite common back in Vanilla.