AV preamdes and the Blizzard End User License Agreement

Ok, but if it’s a bug, it was part of gameplay in all of Vanilla. Blizzard talked about how some bugs was so widespread and used by all that they are part of the game experience and would be kept in Classic.

Maybe it’s the same for premade ques? No one have made that claim yet though. The fact that they made the recent changes makes me doubt that though.

Yes. It absolutely was in the form of Premade AV enabler, an addon that facilitated premading. Half of the AVs I joined back in the day were Russian premades from Molten Core - 40 man groups all on Vent. It wasn’t very commonly used in the pre-1.12 AV, but it became very big after that and continued into TBC.

And whether or not having your 5 man party queue using the in game battemaster constitutes such is up for debate if you ask me.

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Ok, but was that exclusive for one faction like in Classic?

yes it was. on each server, only the lower pop one could do it. it was also much more effective than today.

First time I ever heard anyone claim that in Vanilla retail one faction and not the other could premade in AV.

I played vanilla from start to finish and never saw this. It is not unlikeliy it was done, but not on this scale and frequency.

Would it not be fair to say that most things were done on a smaller scale back in Vanilla? Bracket stacking was basically not a thing. Solo tribute runs was only done by the best players on your realm, no one aoe farmed ZF, most people didn’t bother with full world buffs every raid.

Same issue as now. For the majority of Vanilla, bgs were not cross realm, and Alliance was the majority faction by a large margin. As such, AV premading was, ironically, mostly a Horde thing.

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Yes. I would say that gamers back then were more innocent. Simple to contain and please. Now we see almost a form of industrialization of the game. “Everyone” are just waiting to jump on the most effective way to gain advantages over others. Wether its fun or not does not matter. Naturally it gets ugly.

So… use of INTENDED game mechanics is cheating? Sweet deal.

What intended mechanic are you talking about?

Honestly what are you talking about. Have you notcted that 99% hord players mount up and ride directly into the base, doing “back door” that is exploting. for easy wins. Now you dont see allinace “idle out” before this patch we strated with 5 Dudes and you dident say **** then . would you want to play Counterstrik 6 vs 40? thats what we did for 10 weeks stright.

You kind of F*ed yourself Pick Hord because you knew that there allready was a huge inbalanace and youre Que times is what 1h?, ours is max 5 min.


This is called a Straw Man fallacy.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man ".

It’s not a bug or an exploit.

That’s like saying turtling is an exploit because it’s unintended gameplay.

Players are using A BUILT IN FEATURE.

What’s next horde crybaby? Paladins bubbling is exploit? Warriors critting mortal strike for 2k a bug?

Banning people who use lip or free ac pots?

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“When it positively affects me, it’s good and perfectly okay, but when it negatively affects me it’s bad and must be stopped!”


You can’t queue for AV as a group with more than 5 players. They are circumvents the system to queue as a raid to gain an advantage. It’s by definition an exploit.

If that’s your argument as it is unintended and to gain advantage, so is the horde backdooring via the jump.

Blizzard did NOT intend for horde to be able to do that, therefore it should be banned also etc.

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Ok, I agree. Now what? I don’t use the backdoor. I have never been in a single AV where we needed to use the Backdoor to win. That was only used on Private servers with unnerfed AV where archers hit 5 times harder and elites was like raid bosses and there were mines everywhere that would 2 shoot you.

Ok, but it was a feature in all Vanilla retail patches and wasn’t fixed until WOTLK or something. There have never been a Vanilla version without the Backdoor jump on Alliance base. But close it, fine by me.

people are botting 24/7 since weeks they are not giving a singel ****, you think they care about people actually wanting to play the game?

the reason they removed the numbers was just so you would not get 100 open empty bg’s… that is fixed now nothing is going to happen … botters gonna bot , premades gonna queue up as premade

Soooo, I am looking for a solution here. They can for example adjust the system so it’s close to impossible to exploit and queue as raid preamdes or just simply allow raid premades for all players. I would prefer if they make it much harder to make premades in AV. And hey, if they fix the backdoor to, fine by me. They could also implement the earlier version of AV to make it even better.

These premades hurt Alliance players also. Maybe even more than Horde. The alliance players that doesn’t exploit the queue system will fall behind in ranking and end up in empty AVs against 40 horde when the exploiters dodge games.

Well, premade formations and frequency of them falls under non-randomized occurrences, which can be filtered out via algorithms.
It’d impact queue times for everyone though.

Basically the probability of, let’s say, 30 people, to get into the same AV over, and over, and over, and over again in a short period of time or in a row, is next to impossible with these large matchmaking pools. Which means it’s caused by manipulation. It’s like how they detect cheaters in casinos.
The probability of only 2 people randomly ending up in the same team over and over and over again is more likely, so the improbability increases with more people that’s being matched up like that, relative to the size of the matchmaking pool.

There’s no need to ban anyone for it, they just need to input a probability metric.

Either that or just allow all players to queue as a full raid so we can get some proper realm wars going. Bempri has been suggesting something ok as well, which is to only let full premades queue for a BG, which is actually an ok social design as well as an ok matchmaking design. It’d remove the random element from team creations and limit it only to enemies, kind of like arenas in burning crusade when arena teams were still a thing. (I really miss those teams…)