AV premades are hurting Alliance more than horde

Hi fellow pvpers,

I am Bikini from Golemagg and an enthusiastic pvper.

AV is a great battleground and I am in the camp of pvpers that prefer the shorter version of AV.

I recall the +8hrs AVs in the early days and let me tell you, as a healer, spam healing the raid at an Alliance or Horde turtle is fun for a while but you get bored of it quick.

The short version of AV has the right dynamics for me with quick strategy changes from defending to attacking and sometimes, just pure old fighting in the middle. The sweat spot for me are the 25 to 40mins AV games. Doesn’t matter who wins, they are just great. I do, however, heal like a mad man to make sure horde wins :slight_smile:

Now, to the serious stuff.

The AV premades are hurting the quality of AV and most importantly, they are hurting Alliance more than Horde for the following reasons

  1. The best/highest ranked Alliance players join premades……not the beginners nor the badly geared Alliance players are allowed to join premades; as a result, the Alliance AV PUGs have less skill/firepower to fight and now lose most of the games ( at least my AVs, I haven’t lost a PUG AV for days ). Most AV games against PUGs are now almost too easy…

  2. Due to premades, Alliance PUGs also lack leadership. Good leaders in AV are important not just to lead but to also teach the new comers how to fight in AV. Passing on experience to new comers is important as AV has its complexities.

  3. Premades mess up the Alliance raid during the first few minutes which is well documented in a number of posts; AV sometimes starts with well less than 20 alliance players messing up their early game big time.

On average, I face 2 premades per 10 games so around 20% of the time. We definitely lose to the really good premades even if we defend like crazy but I am happy to say, horde also wins verses the less well organised premades.

Yes, it is frustrating at times to play against premades but for me, that is 2 out of 10 games; the rest of the AVs are almost too easy with the high skilled players missing.

For Alliance non-premade AV games, the frustration is in every game because their best players are in premades and that makes their raid weak.

What are the solutions?

We need to be careful here, lets not rock the boat to hard.

I am in the ‘No Change’ camp but I recognise a bit of fine-tuning is required here.

For a start, I suggest that we focus on making it less easy to join a premade

  1. Remove AV numbers on the enter screen. They are not really needed anymore and help with the premade abuse.
  2. I have seen posts that suggest to give players a deserter debuff if they don’t accept an AV game, I am starting to feel that this would be a good approach ( maybe not a 15min deserter debuff but 5mins ). Why should someone be allowed to re-queue over and over again to find a good premade? There is no reason unless you are interested in abusing the game mechanics.

I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Alliance, I am horde but on this issue, we need to work together and I look forward to your advice as well.

Regards,
Bikini

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The problem is that alliance pugs are just awful. I dont want to get a tumor playing with them so i premade

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Hello fellow server comrade. Allow me to discuss some things you’ve posted.

There are plenty of AV premades that have low requeriments and have high ratio of success anyway. In your very server there’s a guy who runs one that doesn’t even require the 100% mount, we even collected money to buy the 640 one to a guy who was always premading with us. It was a very emotive moment.

So yes, the Alliance pug AV are filled with people unwilling to participate on premades for whatever reason. But they have options to join one If that is what they want.

Half of the AVpugs that I’ve joined are bots or afkers. It is a lost cause. You know what they say. If you can’t beat them…

That is a shame. But nothing that joining to an AV premade can’t solve.

The only solution for the poor alliance pugs you mention in the thread is to join a premade themselves. They will eventually, btw.

I am an Alliance player that usually goes into a premade but also joins to pugs just to gain some extra honor.
If they were to remove the option for me to join AV premades there’s absolutely no way I’d join AV pugs ever. I would instantly switch to premading WSG and I think that is the choice the majority of the Alliance would choose.

Just imagine the queue times on Horde side to join AV if all the alliance that is premading AV suddenly stops playing it.

The Alliance dictates the PvP meta, I’m afraid. If the majority of them switch to WSG the Horde will have to follow or face much MUCH longer queues to join AV

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Not gonna happen. Rerolll alliance or git gud.

Oh and discord servers are public here in forum, anyone can join them.

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Last time I played a pub AV, we had 9 players afk in cave, 2 fishing, 5 sub60 players grinding harpies, and 2 afkers going through the trouble of getting all the way up into the mountains.

There is a reason why premades have such a pull for Alliance players.

I don’t think it really matters much for alliance. Those who pug are mostly rep grinding and once they are done will move on and forget about AV.

I think it is fine with premades, even if Alliance pugs suffer a little. If they are serious about ranking they will join premades anyway.

I am glad for srs alliance rankers to get something. As a casual PvPer I don’t care our chances are like 10% lower due to the good people going into a premade.
You have a valid point, absolutely speaking. But in the end all serious rankers are already doing premades, and the rest of us doesnt care and only goes to lose an AV 2-3 times a day and slowly grinds that exalted rep.
Thats what I do anyway. I expect to lose and don’t believe enimpossiblyizing premade AV is gonna change anything.

Nice post Bikini and good reply Chirotera you put some thought in.

If theyd make it difficult for alliance to premade AV, then the pugs would have to learn defense too, not just rush and give us good games like there was a decade ago.
Few times I had really entertaining games versus some premades, like the Everlook guildraid who dont rush but go for max honor and good pvp fights.

I wish most of alliance would then drop this rush attitude and start pvp rather than quit.

Horde is now crying on behalf of Alliance pugs in order to get more Alliance pugs facing them to stomp them. lol. How selfless.

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well, since av start i tried a lot to get alliances together in bgs. u know what i got from that? brain cancer… i tried so many times until i got to the point where i dont care anymore bout that. alliances are a bunch of 5 iq humans who just play for themself. sadly i turned into something like that.

no its just that all the alliance with brain are in premades. wonder why you are stuck with pugs

and you realise they are kids?
I was asking them today, met 10 year old hunter who killed me by pulling mobs in GY :rofl:

i completely agree.

strong post for real respect

hope they do something with it.

also thanks for making the post its hard to describe some things but this is very very strong so thanks

Another horde. Yea, sure you agree.

None cares though.

#nochanges.

Reroll or go back to retail as your friends told us in p2.

3 Likes

Many good points have been raised here.

We need to ask, what are our priorities?

In my opinion, a fair game between Horde and Alliance should be one of them which is currently not the case.

Can you just imagine how bad this is going to get once Alliance has T2 and T3 gear from AQ40 and Naxx?

I know Blizzard will bring changes because the premade issue is only getting worst as far as I can see it.

We need to hide the AV numbers for a start!!

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“A fair game between Horde and Alliance.” LOL.

That’s so rich coming from a Horde player. Blizzard would have to remake the whole game. And stop 50% of the Horde population from playing in order to make the game “fair” for Alliance outside of AV.

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It was a problem for years in retail and Blizzard never acknowledged it to be a thing in the first place.
Maybe it’ll get more attention now when it’s affecting Classic, but it’s not guaranteed.

The problem is, Horde strategy is just to turtle not only when against a premade; I run cross-realm premades pretty often and they turtle as much as when I’m on Gandling premades.

When the alliance team has all different realm names, how would they know in advance that it is a premade? Simply, they can not. Yet they still turtle 90% of the games.
So playing a pug - with less organization, often not optimal raid composition, lots of afkers/leechers and with levels < 60, will most likely end up in 60+ mins games. With a premade, you can at least break the turtle after 10ish minutes.

Long story short: if Horde players weren’t so much butthurt that they just turtle their games in order to annoy people, there would be less need of premades.

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Its not the hordes fault if alliance pugs refuse to play the AV like it has to be.

I had ONE match today with a alliance pug actually trying to win, they made really good but in the end we made it, but they where on a good way.

Well we have to play with defense or else we are losing, thats a fact you could see in the 1. week of AV. No def = lose against the blue rushtrain

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Oh no, i got +4,000 honor in less than 10 minutes but it says alliance wins, wtf that’s intolerable

Oh ok fine now, +700 honor is meh but at least our horde wins! Zug supremacy haha Go To R e TA iL

1 Like