The majority of people that are calling for changes so premades can’t be done are people that do not care about balance or any sort of fair play. These are the same people that have no problem with the Alliance base wall glitch. The people that had no issue with camping 24/7 due to numbers and so on. These are people that are just mad that they can’t do the same as efficiently and if they where doing it the response would be the same as during phase 2 “go to retail” “pvp happens on pvp servers” “l2p” “re-roll horde” “git gud” and so on. The hypocrisy is laughable.
For the horde players that just picked the faction to have fun and enjoy the esthetic and lore a lot of people around you took it to have an advantage in pvp for racial skills. A large part of alliance players just gave up on world pvp during p2 because of the imbalance it was that bad. Even if you did not participate in the ganking every flight path in the world was camped all the time. I took as much time finish UBRS as it did to get there. So now they are pvp-ing in battle grounds.
As for cheating no it’s not cheating it’s coordination. If this is cheating so is using Discord in raids.
Aha that’s why the horde was going around in groups of 10-20 people to kill 2 because they are so good in pvp. You drove alliance players to pvp only in battle grounds where you can’t gang up on them 10 to 1. Also all these bad pve players that group up for raids amaright?! Don’t make me laugh you got curb stomped for once because you can’t use your overwhelming numbers and you are salty about it.
If you where doing it it was going to be the EXACT same thing “har har alliance bad at pvp L2P lol GO TO RETAIL har har” You can do the EXACT same thing it just takes longer. Also if you are not happy about the faction balance you can always roll alliance. Joining the overpopulated faction has some perks but you have to deal with a few negatives as well. have fun in Q.
Exactly!
No rules are broken or bypassed.
Speaking as someone who played vanilla, ranked in vanilla and now, yes, it is an issue. I came back to the game to PvP with friends and rank with the same friends I did 15 years back. A lot of us were in discussion about wanting to enjoy WSG and AB, and especially some good pre vs pre matches.
As it stands now, I cannot do that and rank effectively, same with my friends. Facing structured premades with randoms, while not being able to play with friends is a massive deterrent that is seriously inviting me to quit this game.
The best solution is honestly to change the honor gain in AV. It solves all issues, and this AV wasn’t really a part of the ranking meta in vanilla, it was an afterthought to help the upcoming change of grinding honor for items instead of ranking.
My response however was more in line to the person pointing out that the answer to horde WSG premades is alliance AV premades, as if that somehow makes it equal. I was pointing out the incoherency in their logic displayed initially, as nothing stops him making WSG alliance premades in return, it’s not as if it’s something exclusive to horde, therefore justifying the ability to exclusively make premades for AV alliance side only.
Thing that hurt the game and should be fixed before the release of BWL (I have hope in Blizzard, they use silence, but every time they do that and then, some days, a blue post spawn and bam) :
-> Bot/Auto-clicker AV : hurt both faction AND the ability to rank. Top priority.
Solution : remove the red portal to autojoin battleground in Alterac Mountain (and same for WSG), and the API to accept a battleground via LUA.
-> Premade in AV : hurt both faction (Alliance : game start at 12vs40 and it’s instant loose. Horde : literally zero fun to face prepared players, not fair, advantage a faction).
Solution : Hide the battleground ID, put a deserter debuff if you don’t join a battleground when you cancel it / don’t accept an invitation, remove the ability to tag into a specific battleground ID.
-> Faction balance : hurt both faction (Alliance : can’t go outside of IronForge, every flypath is full of Horde that wait for fresh meat. Horde : literally zero fun to kill players in 2vs1 every single time).
Solution : hardly solvable, really hard. I doubt there’s any algorithm that take in inputs all servers with populations, and output a solution about how you should merge them to get every server at 50%/50%. This is probably an algorithm with a huge complexity. And faction queue is not a solution since it prevent players to play, the most basic thing, we all pay to play.
I can semi understand that. I can understand to play with your friends.
I cant understand how somebody that ranked in Vanilla, wants to rank again. But well i overdid it with R14 for me.
I would also be dissatisfied with AV the way to go over WSG and AB.
That is sadly the only way in the long term, if we are going by the history of 15 years.
I mean it was the new year and only at Monday for most companies it gets back to the regular.
Still I say it wont get better. Reroll now with your friends or quit. Without harm that are the only solutions for you if you cant stand the current situation.
It was for see able that this was going to happen.
Nothing to add and agree and it is also my 1st suggestion to fix this mess.
Here we differ. Horde has the same means. The result with surely will not be the same as Alliance, but the result is equal over all of the horde faction that compete against each other.
I cant go away from the standpoint that technically Horde can do the exact same thing, it just takes longer/more trys.
But that is a self made problem and i just cant bring myself to sympathize with people that really think this is an exploit instead of looking a bit farther than their own nose and how other perceive the game.
Thats why i most of the time only answer snippy to these people.
Just because everyone can use the exploit doesnt make it less of an exploit. Are you telling me all the wall jump glitches in wsg arent exploits? Because they are.
Sorry to bring it to you once more: The “Q together” is not and exploit.
The real exploits are the wall jumping things.
Define exploit
If you ignore context and nuance, then yes that is certainly true.
However when you contextualize it and add in nuance, it is not the same.
It is an exploit. It is the very definition of the word. If Blizzard intended premades to be allowed into AV, they would allow people to join as raid, or at the very least group. They do not allow that. They never have. Using clever methods around it doesn’t change the fact that this is not what was intended. It is an underhanded and unfair way that cannot be properly mirrored through horde. That fits the definition of exploit perfectly, btw.
Look, I was there, man. This method isn’t new. Horde used to do this in TBC as a very effective means of farming honor every season reset. But the difference is the end goal of PvP in TBC wasn’t ranking via honor, it was arena. If you didn’t want to do it, you could queue other bgs as well. Right now though, due to the sheer amount of honor gained in AV, there is no alternative if you want to rank.
I dont ignore the context, but the nuance.
But as the quote all horde player are equal in that.
It is not. No matter how much you wish it.
It may be a problem, but it steems from another problem that needs to be fixed.
Because if the balance were 50/50 it would not have happen.
The things like skipping the bridge and pulling without guards, THESE things are exploits.
Like your conclusion doesnt necessarily have to be wrong, i think i just need to understand the premises you base your conclusion on. If you could just explain what an exploit is to you maybe i would finally understand your reasoning.
exploit
verb
make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand.
“the company was exploiting a legal loophole”
by it’s definition, it is an exploit. It is not a case of wishing. You can try and distort it any way you wish, but it fits the criteria perfectly.
It does not change the fact that it is considered an exploit to the designs of AV. You’re not supposed to be able to sign up as a raid or with a party to AV. Using clever use of the game mechanics or addons/third party programs to do so to enable that will not change the fact. It being 50/50 will not change that fact, and by it’s definition it is taking advantage of a grey area regarding the instant queue times, which makes it an underhanded and unfair method for those who have to vs it. Both sides doing it would not stop it being an exploit to original designs either, it just worsens the problem by making sure the only way to compete would be to exploit in answer.
Something that was not intentional.
Now we are coming to the nit picking part…
But that many people that are soo outnumbered simply Q at the same time and get to the biggest part in the same BG is not an exploit.
It is just how the system works.
They are using a loophole method due to theinstant queue times to make up raids/premades in a battleground that disabled the function to queue up as raids/premades/parties.
At this point I can’t make it any clearer. You are unwilling to accept that it is an exploit, that is fine. That doesn’t change it is an exploit by it’s definition, though.
You are the person that is unwilling to see its a circumstance not an exploit…
Skipping the bridge in AV is an exploit. Pulling without guards is an exploit.
You think playing word dress up changes it? No. It’s an exploit. It’s enabling the queueing of a premade into a battleground which specifically prohibits premades. You can keep responding and trying to play semantics and word salad dressing, but it won’t change that core fact that Blizzard explicitly prohibits premades into AV, and alliance are utilizing the instant queue times to get around that.
You think your opinion is right and nothing else ?
Sorry that you are just egoistic and nothing more.
And horde is utilizing racials as an unfair advantage.
If you need to want a change to that too if you really want balance. Otherwise you just want to get catered to and nothing more.
Try play an Ally Warlock or Priest and come back after a few weeks against the hordes of UD Rogues in the smaller BGs…
It’s not an opinion though.
Blizzard doesn’t allow premades into AV. Alliance are utilizing instant queues to get around that to get premades into AV. There is nothing subjective about that. It falls into exploitation quite clearly, as they are exploiting the instant queues to get premades into AV, something which Blizzard does not allow.
It’s not up for subjective debate about that being an exploit. Under the rules of the system Blizzard created for AV, it is exploitative. Trying to pretend it’s not by playing semantics and making a “well thats like, just your opinion, man” post dosn’t change that any.
The racials are a part of the system as Blizzard intended. It is not comparable to utilizing instant queues to queue as a premade in a battleground which has the party/raid function to join as disabled.