The situation in Alterac Valley for the Alliance is unplayable. In pug v pug games in other bgs the win rate is fairly even, Alterac Valley on the other hand has been 95% losses for the Alliance. People can argue about the reasons for this, but this is clearly not functioning as intended. The map has to be changed to even the victory chances for Alliance.
The key map issues are the Horde cave position relative to Alliance and the Icewing Bunker choke point. Sort these out and all other issues in AV will sort themselves out as Alliance players adjust to a new situation in which they have a reasonable chance of winning.
Blizzard were happy to make changes when the Horde cried about AV premades, make these changes now.
another one of these huh… well let me repeat what has already been said a million times; Horde has a bigger incentive to play to win due to their long queue times, whereas alliance players give up and go afk/fishing after their first wipe.
you could stuff the horde cave in the back behind their main base and they would still win every game.
defeatism is an illness that can’t be cured with map changes.
Disagree with your statement, the map does not need to be changed. Alliance have some good choke points too to contain the Horde.
The Horde are just more determined to win and have the right tactics, whilst Alliance know they can just walk into another AV and give up way too easily.
I honestly think this is a huge part of it. As a Horde your queue time is 30+ minutes, on a good day. Even longer at times.
As Alliance it’s what? A maximum of 5 seconds at worst?
So why would you, as Alliance, drag the game out for another 30-40minutes trying to turn the tide in your favour when you can simply roll over, fish/AFK or hunt solo kills and get into a new game quickly?
It makes sense not to fight at that point and if half your team thinks it’s worth giving up for a quicker loss you’re suddenly heavily outnumbered.
There’s really nothing to be done about this. Less and less alliance will play AV until horde plays a match against NPCs with 40 alliance afk in the cave once every 4 hours.
The impact of the map is what has led to the imbalance between the factions. See below:
Map imbalance leads to more Horde victories
Geared Alliance players and pvpers avoid AV
Alliance lose more AV
People then only join for rep
Therefore people afk leech for rep
The downwards cycle continues
Fix the map, these other secondary issues would fix themselves. The whole “will to win” argument is a load of rubbish.
Even when Alliance are well coordinated and following leader, it is just much harder to hold IB GY than it is SH GY.
In response to the Allies giving up part. The reason allies give up is BECAUSE of the choke point. Once Horde has SH GY there isn’t anything Alliance can do to win.
That’s just not true. The sad truth is that it’s the attitude of the Alliance that lets the Horde dominate AV as they do. I would have loved to play more AV but every single game - as soon as there is the slightest setback - you have a chorus of Alliance players moaning about turtling and “just let them win”. I personally don’t care that much about either winning or losing as long as it’s fun, but I just can’t stand those bloody cry babies infesting every AV, and they’re the reason why Alliance has such a poor win / loss ratio.
I hate to say it, but my experience from AV proved every negative thing they say about Alliance PVP to be true.
This is just not true I have seen Allience teams try for the entire match with good leadership and grouping up and attacking but it’s pointless soon as horde try to defend ibgy the cave spawning so close it’s easy for them to defend it and fact that u cannot defend shgy in same manner because of the distance is huge and the hill gives the horde huge advantage point.
Allience have to absolutely dominate the horde in multiple positions to win while the horde only have to cap the shgy.
I can 100% say that if the horde and Allience positions were swapped horde would lose 90% of matches the 30 min queue and better players avoid AV is just an excuse to avoid the real problem
oh its rubbish is it? so how come alliance dominated AV on release when they ran premades and won the BG in 7 minutes, long before horde even got to the ally base?
must be that horde favored map you like to prattle about. the fact of the matter is; Alliance win base races EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
how come suddenly when alliance are losing every game suddenly the map “clearly favors horde” ?
Coordinated premade on mics with x amount of healers 100% mounts and good compositions is why Allience where winning in 7 mins Vs randoms and this was at a time before horde started to use their map advantage and turtle until they get lok. Even if they did decided they would turtle they had no chance vs premade running in with sapper mages and even then some premades lost Vs randoms who did use the map advantage.
Allience still win in 7 mins Vs Russians and sometimes they won in 7 mins that’s because both used rush tactic
but alliance players used to argue that premades were completely fair and totally not an obvious advantage, but now, because it fits your narrative, suddenly you use it as an argument??
So, Alliance won most games when they had better players. When horde wins most of the time it’s because the map favors them. I see your point there.
I still find it remarkable of how many excuses are made in order to explain away the fact that Alliance lose a lot nowdays. Blame it on the map, on the racials on the fact that shamans exist. Meanwhile ignore every single advantage your faction has access to.
To this day i still didn’t see any reasonable suggestion why would it be a disadvantage for the Alliance that the 1. fight usually happens closer to their GY.
I never once said that premades are fair.I am Actually against it because I think it’s ruining the game for casual players.
I think you really need to level an Allience toon and join an AV and see for yourself the map advantages are blatently obvious do you really think that the reason u win 90% of the games is because you are more skilled at hitting 5 buttons than an Allience equivalent. Horde do have stronger racials that’s the reason there is a much larger horde population in PvP servers and it represents in the queue time but that’s not the reason why we lose AV so much compared to WSG/AB.
To think that there is no map advantage in AV because when premades where a thing winning Vs a pugs is laughable. Try solo even in WSG/AB as a pug Vs premade where there is no map advantage but you will most likely lose to the premade
We can aruge on opinions but I’m saying what I have seen while getting the rep in March after that I had no furter contant with this bg as I find it to be terribly dull and boring.
Every AV was the same Alliance goes to left or right side of the map, get scouted by the Horde, intercepted and destroyed in detail as they refuse to fight together for the most part. At this point about 10 or so of them gives up and the remaining players are left to fend for themselves so they turtle and lose with no offense.
Defeatism begest defeat and they feel justified by thinking that they can’t win as they give up and predictably lose.
I don’t mean to bash the Alliance as I don’t think that any faction has the “better PvPers” but again i see the same thing happen in AB too. In pug v pug i have about 80% winrate. As the Alliance usually gives up and turtle a base and we win with 4 cap.
We can only go left or right I do find the games where players try to outrun the horde it always ends in disaster but I have joined games where we all go as one zerg and usually wipe the horde then it ether becomes a constant fight in field of strife until horde ether caps SFgy and zergs shgy or the horde mange to flank and ninja cap the shgy both ends in loss for allience
If Allience goes for SF Gy horde will attack both shgy and SFgy until they cap one which is inevitable for 90% chance to win.
if it goes Allience favour and we cap SF and managed to cap ibgy this is our 10% chance to win the cave respawning 20 horde a time we need all Allience to defend ibgy to win if u managed to cap shgy we spawn all north when dead or SF where your reinforcements are more often and eventually take ibgy then shgy and win the game.
It is almost impossible to come back from losing Shgy the stormpike spawn is just too far away to effectively take shgy back that’s when players give up because by that point you just wait until you have enough to summon Lok which we can’t prevent because it’s impossible to get past to prevent and you win the game. At this point Allience just want Lt and generals which horde do defend which causes more Allience to quit pvping AV since there is nothing for us to play it once exalted
What i wanted to by the line I don’t see why it’s a disadvantage for the Alliance that the 1. fight is colser to their GY was, in my experience if the fight goes on for too long(3 min or so) at SHgy most Horde players will tunnel vision into taking it and clumping up at the foot of the hill waiting for someone to do something.
At that point if you keep them under pressure(have your mages and warriors go in die if they have to just don’t let them get things in order) you can cap IBgy with 10 or so players and wipe them at SHgy by attrition if by nothing else.
I have not seen ever that the Alliance ever take advantage of the fact that they ress almost at the frontline.
I know this sounds way to easy as you can think about what would happen but it would be something to at least try to win outside of the things that have been tried and failed before. For the most part what the ordinary pug goer lacks is initiative if ppl can capitalize on that they can turn the tides on almost any bg.