still blaming afkers on alliance side. keep reporting them oh wait nothing will happen. keep blaming map advantages
Ppl started mass afking after ppl tried their best with every possible tactic while all you were zugzuging into our base skipping all elites and solo pulling Van.
I am on alliance side and I am embarrassed how people even join this bg just to afk around and do nothing. stop pretending that alliance is even trying. I hate it.
Theyi ntentionally join av to afk and leech honor from those who fight. 20v40 doesnt work. we have won games even with this map āadvantageā just takes one person to lead and 39 to follow nothing more.
To be fair I hate fakers too, yet you canāt blame it all on them when we fought blades between our teeth just to be shut down by blizzard because pushing a button at the same time is an exploit but effortlessly passing behind 3 defense lines and having an immediate access to an easy cappable GY is not in their eyes.
yes I can it all blame on them because they are literally doing the same in almost every arathi basin and warsong vs pugs. why que to afk and leech honor because they know the system doesnt do anything anyways.
Communication isnāt the easiest part but letās see what we have here,
We need to know the context here :
I never claimed otherwise :
Because there are many factors that lead to a situation, focusing on one factor never helps to find a long term solution (this is in general)
I donāt know how you read that part but it was there, Horde want to wipe the alliance raid near SF / SH, and usually never defend below that, or in very small group. So the point still stands
I like this part, and I suppose you wouldnāt mind sharing the numbers with us so we can know the specifics.
So wanting to recenter the discussion around all the factors is being dishonest because I donāt believe the map layout is the only deciding factor ?
How did you come to that conclusion ?
Because there are many factors that lead to a situation, focusing on one factor never helps to find a long term solution (this is in general)
Sure. But saying āthere are many factors so letās not discuss this factorā isnāt exactly helpful either.
I donāt know how you read that part but it was there, Horde want to wipe the alliance raid near SF / SH, and usually never defend below that, or in very small group. So the point still stands
You donāt need an entire raid to remove 10 people. No matter how you try to spin that statement of yours itās just not true that even just the horde that die fighting in the middle wonāt be enough to retake IB from 10 people. Alliance need 20+ people at IB not 10.
I like this part, and I suppose you wouldnāt mind sharing the numbers with us so we can know the specifics.
Again. Youāre being completely dishonest here. As Iāve said you donāt need any actual statistics to be able to say this. Or are you seriously claiming that AB and WSG are as one sided as AV is? Heck if we had actual numbers even premade vs pug stats would probably look better than AV Horde vs Alliance. Youāre just dodging the issue like you are the map one by saying āitās more complicated than that so letās not talk about itā.
Hasnāt AV historically always had a fairly significant Alliance advantage? Classic Alliance players just seem to give up after a single loss and not bother playing anymore.
My understanding is that it was Horde who used to lose game after game in Vanilla with the same map. Is this not true? If that was the case, then the issue cannot be the map, it is the player.
Secondly, whenever we play versus Russian Alliance, the chance of a win becomes 50%. They work together, stick together and annihilate horde. So if it is working for Russian Alliance players, but not EU Alliance, then the issues is once again not the map.
My personal experience is that most of the time, Alliance play badly. But when they play well, they have a good win rate.
That happened because the patch on which Vanilla AV was played the most wasnāt 1.12. The NPCs were though and you couldnāt skip things if you wanted to even get close to the base and you couldnāt just turtle while 5 ppl went backdooring the ally base.
Also the backdoor glitches wasnāt that well known.
What you mean by that? More Horde rezzed in cave than Alliance in their cave?
He means when horde die near iceblood they respawn in cave where the position of it is and respawn 20 a time and a short distance to iceblood graveyard
Compare it to Allience when we die at stonehearth we respawn at stormpike graveyard not the cave which is Futher away and we respawn 10 because itās a graveyard with a huge distance to stonehearth.
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Yes, cave location is an disadvantage for IB fight. They should move it souther.
I donāt believe that fixing cave location and backdoor, would help much. Especially backdoor, only helps in winning faster. But even if Alliance would manage to keep IB gy more often (due to cave moved souther), I believe that Horde players would adapt (after some losses) and heavily defend IB. i already see that tendency. If IB is capped, Horde players comes from North to help those rezzed at cave, to wipe the Alliance.
And if we could switch bases ( I consider it an advantage for Alliance) Horde would be killing Van much more quickly.
It would be an interesting experiment.
To be honest Iād rather have pre 1.12 AV rather than moving an entire spawn point.
You do have some valid points about horde coming back to defend IBGY which is important I donāt see the same happening to Allience with SHGY but if the cave was Futher away it would be much harder for horde to back cap because their reinforcements would be much less and they could potentially lose SHGY from players spawning at stormpike which should be moved as well to equal distance from fwgy-ibGy the disadvantages in this map are all about spawns and travel distance to objectives
I find itās more mentality and pvp skill, alliance often give up upon entering or after first wipe, most ally players seem not to know how to pvp compared to horde, I.E what there mages/warrior/rogues should be doing to help push, when horde have mages blinking in to aoe and nova, wars distracting front line and mortal striking and rogues etc picking off the back line, Alliance seem to just line up and try hold the line until they get picked apart or they try push but spread out and then get picked off too, as a healer I rarely get cover, Iāve been sapped and just left there by my allies who left me to die, then without heals they died not long later too trying to pushā¦
From experience Alliance can win if the team and co-op is there, I like many Alliance have gone more than a day without a win but also some days with good groups and communication Iāve also won 3-4 games in a row, even had a game the other night where we were getting smashed and started turtling north, eventually people started communicating and got some momentum going and actually pushed all the way back to win after 2.5 hrs
I agree there is some favour to the map for horde but I think that has a smaller impact than people make out its just the easiest to focus on and pretend itās not your fault itās just rigged
Also theres no way blizzard will change a BG map nowā¦ How long has the map been leftā¦ I mean the racials arenāt exactly balanced either are they gona go back and change those too? Where does it end? Retail again lol?
Againā¦ that would account for a 40/60 win ratio letās say 30/70 if we add a completely defeatist attitude. Yet we are experiencing numbers around 5/95 which means there are some severe advantages for the horde that cannot be included in the randomness of players skills level and attitude.
Plus itās good to remember that ally being defeatist comes from them trying each and every possible way to win and then getting stomped by said advantages and seeing pur only way to retaliate being āfixedā. That helped us crossing our arms quite a lot.
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yea some alliance mages just stay back and press blizzard fun times
There it is the superiority ego that a actually thinking rolling a faction makes u magically more skilled and better at the game than another faction and the defeatist attitude is an excuse I see alot in AV alot of players following a leaders tactics and believe me the tactics we have tried are diversified we have tried everything and still lose.
Iāve seen horde players play horribly as you have explained Allience are horrible.Iāve seen horde mages try to counterspell me when I was in divine shield for 3 seconds already Iāve also seen mages try to sheep druids Iāve seen horde rogues walk into aoe and break stealths Iāve seen horde ignore healers Iāve seen horde afk where I can cap a flag right next to them Iāve seen horde running into walls in bgs.
I mean if we are as bad as you say we are surely we would get dominated with our defeatist attitude in all bg settings which is not the case
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Of course it would be harder to retake IB and defend/take SH. But when one side is willing to play a long game and the opponent consider it as a waist of time, the second team will give up soon or later. There are some threads with Alliance players complaining about Horde turtling.
As I said, it would be interesting to play with some fixes. Maybe what I estimate is wrong, and Alliance would manage to win a lot more games.