Good premades were BiS geared, fully optimized, they were coordinated and used voice comms to push in at the exact same moment.
If horde defends IB choke point, it is nearly impossible for a random pug group to push through a 3-way mega choke with towers shooting from one side and being flanked from the other constantly.
That is the biggest reason(not the only one) why the map is extremely imbalanced and biased, and it will never be fixed by an incompetent indie company.
seems like a you-problem to me.
coordinate better, work together, stop going afk/fishing and being defeatist, then and only then, will you start winning games. if horde pugs can coordinate by reporting flag tags, where to defend/attack, and flag afkers out of their bg’s then so can you… it seems like you just lack the will to do it and expect a clean sweep of the bg while turning your brains off.
well i got news for you: that won’t work.
EDIT: oh and if you’re gonna use the tower as an excuse as to why you can’t push through IB… guess what… Horde has to face 2 bunkers on a bridge to get through dun baldar and we still manage to do that every game. just imagine if you guys actually defended on that bridge… you could be MCing players off the bridge and killing them while completely safe behind archer lines, and that’s just one advantage to the bridge.
You are a player with 64 average parses as enhancement shaman in the game. Your highest dps is 656 on vael and 273 on nefarian. I am a mage with 96.1 median and 99.2 best parses, my highest dps is 1.9k.
It is a shame that we can’t see pvp records on classic, but you can tell us your best pvp rating overall. I reached gladiator/hoth several times on retail during different expansions.
Now you come to me with “gitgud, its a you problem”. I don’t think so bro, and I never went fishing in AV.
I think it’s a you problem and you can’t understand any rational argument.
ps: and you can’t expect from 40 random players, among which are fresh 60s with 60 mounts, green geared players, low levels and questers, to have a crazy level of coordination and performance. Horde can push SH gy without a high level of coordination, alliance can’t. The reason is the map design, simple, basic, and period.
Since you can’t find them, I’m quoting them for you (the discussion was about AV being Alliance favored):
Also, most of Vanilla was played with an incarnation of AV far different than this where backdooring wasn’t the optimal option. This means that at that time it was barely used and not so well known either.
If you want to talk about actual ti creation of Vanilla we’d had to go to old AVs lasting 4+ hours as minimum.
What? Alliance have a HUGE advantage and can run past all but one elites to the graveyard that is located far away from the rest of the base. Have you even played Horde in AV?
The backdoor is still not the “optimal option”. The backdoor is irrelevant… I dont even understand why you are so fixated with it.
Have you ever played AV as Horde in Classic?
It’s not used today either. Atleast not to win game. Its irrelevant.
And I have, and I do.
I have played emulated Vanilla on private servers for many years. I have played thousands of hours in older versions as both Alliance and Horde. I also have a lvl 60 Alliance in Classic, exalted on 3 60s total. I know a thing or five about AV in these modern days.
The backdoor is irrelevant in nerfed AV like in Classic. It has nothing to do with Horde win ratio.
If you are talking about the AV queue change, that was as a hotfix to help Alliance puggers when Alliance premades circumvented and exploited the queue and dodged queues in a gamebreaking way for alliance puggers that would suffer for it. That’s why it was hotfixed 3 times.
This is just not true. The fix to prevent games from starting with too few people happened and premades still existed. After that there was a complete rewrite of the way queues work for AV and the BG numbers were hidden. Saying that this was meant to help Alliance puggers is ridiculous since this last change (and yes it’s a change not a hotfix since the BG queues now work differently than they did in vanilla) benefited the Horde exclusively.
I don’t know if you are playing the stupid or you are honestly not getting it. But I’ll go for the second and clear up things.
The Horde cave can ress more players per time compared to the Alliance one and is closer to the center, meaning that the Horde can reach it before.
Alliance players can not avoid getting hit by archers on both Galvangar and IB towers while one of the bunkers is easily skipped.
Alliance has 1 less elite guard because we have a patrol that can be skipped entirely by the backdoor mechanic.
I’m not telling you that you have no experience with AV, I’m telling you that this version where you can rush things is far from the actual AV that ppl played in Vanilla, there objectives where far harder to cap and HAD to be gold or you’d never be able to even survive the boss pull.
Let me explain how it follows. 10-12 horde try recapping it. They’ll most likely die and respawn at cave/FW gy.
The rest of the horde has pushed SH graveyard. That means alliance now spawns at stormpike. That’s like spawning in Narnia if you have to get back to IB.
Those 10-12 horde that respawned at cave/FW will keep trying to recover the gy, taking maybe 1 or 2 alliances on the way.
Alliance forces wane in IB and there is no possibility of getting more resources there in time.
Yes, after first hotfix, there still where problems. It was hotfixed 3 times.
Yes, they hotfixed the system to prevent the exploit and circumvention of the solo player pug limitation.
It’s a fact that it was done to help alliance puggers. The first hotfix solved that. The last two hotfixes was done to stop players from breaking the EULA when they abused an exploit by circumventing a limitation on the queue system with the unique result in Classic where one faction could form raid premades in a pug battleground. There is nothing strange or controversial about fixing new exploits in Classic.
So you have no arguments to counter the objective facts, and your only option is to “so what?”. So let’s answer.
Faster ressing (or better said, ressing closer) generates a numerous advantage. This numerous advantage allows for one side to push while the other can’t hold the ground.
Getting hit by the archers weakens the alliance players. That means that when a fight takes place, alliance are already at disadvantage.
And not only that, but the positioning also causes alliance to be stuck in one place. Unlike horde, where they can move to a lot of places.
It’s one more issue the horde does not have to deal with. Again, more advantage.
Yeah… Except that queue system isn’t anymore. If it has to be based on 1.12.1, it should be for everything, not only for what benefits horde.
Right. So premades being removed wasn’t done for Alliance puggers like you claimed before. Glad that we agree. Also why was no one sanctioned in any way if they were supposedly breaking the EULA? Also why are you suddenly advocating for changes (and these are changes not “hotfixes”) that were never in any version of Vanilla? And why would it not be a feature of Classic like a myriad of other exploits (“clever use of game mechanics”) that were present in Vanilla and also in Classic?
He is stating facts. What more to say than so what? Classic is a recreation if those facts. What more is there to say?
So what? Is it not an authentic recreation or what is your argument? Classic is a recreation of 2006 World of Warcraft.
Again, so what?
Again, so what?
The queue system was hotfixed to solve a unique result in Classic where one faction could form raid premades and dodge queues leave alliance puggers alone vs 40 horde. This was breaking the EULA so a hotfix was made.
The queue system was not hotfixed for that. When a premade dropped a queue, there were still at least 30 seconds of preparation left and BGs would fill up with people. Stop lying yourself.
The only reason it was “hotfixed” (it wasn’t really a hotfix since it was working like in 1.12.1…) was because alliance players found a method to be >5player premades without actually breaking anything in the system, causing horde to lose in 5-10 minutes.
Something inconceivable, outrageous. For a faction with overpopulation that had to wait 30-40 minutes for queues to pop, only to lose in 5 minutes.
It’s not an opinion. The facts don’t agree with you.
That’s your claim. I don’t know if anyone was sanctioned. Neither do you. Blizzard don’t want to ban anyone obviously, they rather fix the issue if possible.
I have always said that it’s acceptable to fix new exploits results unique for Classic. And yes, it was hotfixes.
It’s very weird how it in any way can be controversial for you that Blizzard fixed a clear exploit unique for Classic where only one faction could form raid premades in a pug battleground by circumventing a clear limitation in the queue system and dodging queues that harmed alliance puggers that did not exploit the system.
But I am used to these Straw Man arguments. I have seen it many many times.
You want changes. I explain facts. People get upset about facts and start with personal attacks and Straw Man arhuments.
Not it wasn’t since the only issue Alliance puggers had with premades was solved without removing premades. You even said so yourself.
Which part of the EULA prevents people from entering the queue at the same time? You don’t need any 3rd party software. An in game chat channel works fine.
Yes you have indeed always said that since it’s a change that you like you think it’s ok. You can call it a fix all day long but it’s a complete rewrite of the queue system to make it work in a way it never did in Vanilla. So a change.
It was not unique to Classic as it could be done in Vanilla and there was actually nothing preventing the Horde from doing the same. They would just have needed many more people but there was no mechanic in the game the Alliance had exclusive access to. Also the only reason it was so hard to do for Horde was the fact that we have these battlegroups that are much larger than they ever were in Vanilla. So you’re justifying a change with another change. Another thing you’re usually adamantly opposed to. Interesting how these things shift when the changes go the way you approve of.
Here’s where you’re wrong, kiddo.
They did not modify the queue system (not a fix because it wasn’t broken) because they were “hurting alliance puggers”. They modified it because the method allowed people to premade in large groups, and also to premade with ppl from other servers (because battlegroups).
When 30 out of the 40 bg’s players capacity were premades and 10 pugs were carried, noone of those 10 puggers complained. Puggers only complained when they didn’t get in a premade group to get a 90% chance of victory and instead had a 10% chance on winning pug group.