Ok, let’s try again for the third time.
You win. Horde have an advantage. All you arguments are correct. I am disproven.
Now what? What do you want?
Dude. Stop those silly lies you tell to yourself. Both this and you having an alliance and saying that alliance wants to lose for fast rep.
I’ve never been in a premade. I’ve been in those BGs where only 8 ppl are in until 30 seconds are left. This sh*t doesn’t happen. These “poor puggers” don’t exist. And it’s no different having to wait until 30 seconds are left for people to join than getting into these “normal” AVs with half the raid wanting to lose for fast honor.
From 20% Horde WR when premades happened to a 90% Horde WR after they broke the queues is not helping the horde.
Sure mate.
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Ok so right now, no one have ever done a thread asking to revert the AV queue changes. You can be the first.
I am stating facts. For something to be a lie it as to be wrong and have the intent to deceive. Just because you don’t want to believe the facts doesn’t make it a lie.
If I am wrong, pls provide your argument and if you have evidence. I don’t expect evidence though as it’s usually impossible to have in these discussions.
There was many threads created byu alliance players complaining about this before Blizzard hotfixed the exploit.
Ok so AV is a battleground for pugs. Right now no one is exploiting or circumventing the queue system. How is that bad?
Personally I would prefer a queue where only premades can queue for AV. That would be more fun.
Where does it say anything about puggers?
Here:
We’re fixing a setting that allowed the battleground to start with as few as 20 players on a team.
Alliance premades would have a dodger enter, they see 5-10 Allaince and the rest drop the queue. Over and over until they get all into one AV with instant queue.
That blueppst was made after the first Hotfix though. That was the second hotfix. They made one more hotfix after that.
I really can’t see how this is in any way controversial. AV is designed and intended for pugs to play vs pugs. One faction could circumvent the limitation and also dodge queues to gain an unfair advantage in a new way in Classic that was gamebreaking for alliance and horde puggers. Blizzard hotfixed that. It has nothing to do with the overall design in AV and location of the cave and have no effect on the pug vs pug win/lose ratio.
Again: there was no mechanic in the game preventing Horde from doing the exact same thing. It was made very difficult to do because of the larger battlegroups we have in Classic than there were in Vanilla but there was nothing at all faction specific about premades. It was also a thing in actual Vanilla (similarly for both factions but more difficult for Alliance) so how can you say that you need changes to prevent something that happened in Vanilla to not happen in Classic while also saying you want Classic to be a faithful recreation of Vanilla?
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I never said that.
fact is this.
Classic had a new exploit where only one faction could circumvent the solo queue limit. This hurt both Alliance puggers and Horde puggers. Blizzard hotfixes that and now the queue is working as designed and intended where pugs play vs pugs in AV.
It’s absurd to use this hotfix as an argument to add other unrelated changes.
I have never said that. I would never use words like “faithful”. What does that even mean?
Classic is a recreation of 2006 World of Warcraft based on patch 1.12.1 with progressive content on a modern Client.
It’s absolutely not a “faithful” recreation of vanilla. People that believe that are the people asking for changes, so it can be more faithful to their personal experience of how they people it felt to play the game 14y ago…
Again: there was nothing faction specific about premades and the “exploit” wasn’t new since it worked the exact same way it did in Vanilla. What mechanic did the Alliance have access to that the Horde didn’t which made this unfair?
And as I’ve said before you can keep calling it a “hotfix” all you want but a complete rewrite of the queue system which now works quite a bit differently than it did in Vanilla isn’t a “hotfix” but a change.
Ow so you do want to pick and choose which bits you want changed and which are fine as is? Who would have thought?
Yes it literally was.
Only one faction could for raid premades to circumvent the solo queue limitation in Classic AV. This was new and unique for Classic.
What makes an exploit ann exploit, is the result, intention and usage. Not the method. The RESULT was that only one faction could circumvent the solo queue limit in Classic. That RESULT was new and uniqueue in Classic.
It was littelly a hotfix:
a small piece of code developed to correct a major software bug or fault and released as quickly as possible.
They hotfixed an exploit where only one faction could circumvent the solo queue limitation and form raid premades. This hurt both Alliance and Horde puggers.
They didn’t rewrite anything. They made some minor tweaks to stop a gamebreaking exploit new and unique for Classic.
I want Blizzard to fix all new and unique exploits in Classic.
Do you know of any other new and unique exploit in Classic?
Nowhere says it was that issue was happening because premades.
In fact, that hardly happened. Maybe in the “last instances” of the bgs where there were indeed not enough people queued. But most of the bgs where premades dropped would fill within preparation time.
Also, this “fix” isn’t actually a fix. This is how it worked in vanilla, TBC, WotLK and so on. Same as WG or AB, where the minimum was 5 and 8 players if I recall correctly.
Aside from that, I was referring to the 2nd point:
Which was the tunnel for alliance to premade groups.
That change was what broke the premade system.
And the reason for doing that was as you say:
They attacked the premade creation that was causing an overwhelming advantage inside the BGs.
And the reason for that was because it had more impact on horde than on the 2-3 bgs that would start with 24 or 25 alliance people who tried to snipe a bg.
i Think it all boils down to skills tbh. and consume as the gnome mentioned
You guys cling on to this AV queue thing so hard. But why? Do you honestly want it to be reverted or are you just using this change as an argument to add other unrelated changes?
I want 5 man groups to not be allowed in AV, a change that wasnt in Vanilla. It was a bad change, and if you want ill show prove that Horde rankers are leading in AV.
I’m in for restoring the status before those “anti vanilla changes” happened. Even if that means that I’ll sometimes be put in a group where we’re 23 vs 40 at the beginning, or I’ll be paired with a 32-player premade group, or if the horde decides to do the same, be facerolled by them and lose the bg.
Because the other option, -staying as we’re staying now- has other issues that would require more changes. And more changes imply even more difference between 2006 version of the game and today’s.
Well you are in luck! So far, NO ONE have started a thread and asked for that change to be reverted! You can be the first!
Ok but why have you or no one else ever asked for that? You guys only use this argument to push for other changes. No one have actually made a thread to lobby for that to be reverted.
If you want to restore the AV queue to it’s broken form where alliance raids can enter AV then ask for that in a separate thread. That way the Alliance puggers who will suffer the most can join the discussion.
Don’t use it as an argument to add other unrelated changes.
Already did that thread it was buried, no interest.
Not true. Horde could do the exact same thing. They just needed more people to do it and it was less reliable. Just like it was in actual Vanilla for the Alliance. There was no game mechanic that only the Alliance had access to.
Why was this never addressed in actual Vanilla if it was supposedly an exploit and way was no one punished for exploiting the game?
It wasn’t a small piece of code. They changed the entire way queues for AV work now. They didn’t just hide BG numbers players joining the queue now get put into a sort of batch then they get scrambled and actually enter the queue a few minutes later. AV queue is now completely different than it ever was in any version of Vanilla.
But this was not a new “exploit” nor was it unique to Classic. Also nice edit on the blue post you linked which proves my point. It’s not a “hotfix” or even a regular “fix” but an “improvement” also known as a change.
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In vanilla we always went in as a premade in AV as Horde, addon alterac enabler …
In Vanilla retail there was never a situation where only one faction could form raid premades in AV.
Ok, so they put in a lot of work to fix this new exploit in Classic. That is how important it was to fix. That should show you how big of a deal it was then by Blizzard that don’t want to touch anything and spend as little time as possible on Classic.
The result was new and unique for Classic. And it was gamebreaking. That’s why they spent so much time and resources to fix it like you claim.
Yes they changed the queue so it could no longer be exploited in a new unique way in Classic.
How is this so hard to understand? In Classic only one faction could form raid premades and circumvent the solo queue limit. They fixed that. Nothing controversial or strange with them fixing that.
but wait, are you in fact using this unrelated change as an argument to add other changes?