That happens in every type of server and in every continent? Are the people playing horde more unlikable, everywhere!? If Alliance > Horde in PvE, and PvP grind = PvE grind, deeming Alliance the superior faction… but we are also less likable… I mean, damn
Twenty three warriors in a raid of forty is not enough I assume.
There is no PvP now, there is PvE
Yes!
In all of your “Barrens griefing scenarios” - The ones you all have provided, it would solve 100% of them. Afk player does not get killed on a PvE server. Lowlevels do not get killed.
Welcome to PvP town then.
Yes LOL
Ok thanks for stating this. Goes in-line with the irrefutable stats.
Top 100 MC DPSers EU → 95% Warriors, 79% Alliance Warriors
Top 100 BWL DPSers EU → 98% Warriors, 75% Alliance Warriors
Top 100 AQ40 DPSers EU → 98% Warriors, 76% Alliance Warriors
Top 100 Naxx DPSers EU → 99% Warriors, 69% Alliance Warriors
It’s not to cater for competetive parsers only. As I’ve said plenty of times, the raidlogging affects the whole faction. If anythig it’s catering to alliance and possibly horde too as explained in earlier post.
Makes sense since we are a lot more people raiding.
While I enjoy the compliment, class balance is a sepperate issue. Shamans vs. Paladins ais completely different topic.
Nope. We compete against everyone but mostly ourselves. That is I compete against myself. My own logs to improve. Not meant as faction.
AV has always been the popular choice. The only reason rankers back in the day switched to AB/WSG was because Blizzard changes the game. They made CHANGES and so the playerbase changed with them. The incentive to play horde is still pvp. Besides AV weekend WSG still pops, though AB rare pops outside AB weekend. With MoS and less raidlogging there would be way more alliance out in the world which would then mean more world pvp, making you stronger. That would be a nice thing, no? Also, alliance having long Q timers doesn’t make them attractive, but horde having short Qs makes them atractive.
All of them had Rend, it wouldn’t change the logs or anyhitng in their power, they would just be able to play their char more.
Already covered earlier in post.
We want to be competetive with everyone including ourselves. I want to compare my logs with my own earlier logs, other people of same class and other people of other class. It’s everyone, we just use it mainly to improve ourselves and our performance from raid to raid.
It seems like it would have little to no impact on horde. The people I know in Fun Police play both alliance and horde. They are not stopping on horde because of MoS. They like playing horde because of racials and/or shaman.
Yes, yes you do. We’ve heard you and accept your view. We are having a discussion which is why repeating the same thing over and over doesn’t add anything to the discussion. We know there is a valid reason for not having MoS. We know there is a valid reason for alliance not being able to get the buff. What we also know is, there is a valid reason for having MoS and there is a valid reason for alliance to be able to get Rend. This is why we are having a discussion about it. Us writting buff good or buff bad without arguments does nothing to further this discussion. It only dilutes it with repetition.
I have no idea and I’m not planning to find out. Rank grind might be AV meta and therefor PvE, but that doesn’t mean there’s no PvP and PvP is lost.
Having MoS doesn’t change that. Performance will be the same. Raids will be the same. This doesn’t add anything Rend doesn’t and they are exclusive. It’s not like they give them wings or the power to solo Naxx. Everything stays the same raid wise.
Ofc there is PvP. It’s different what we call PvP, but according to your definition of PvP there’s PvP. Not as much as there used to be back before era. What exactly would like when it comes to PvP? WSG is popping and people are around in the world, so what is it you would like?
Come on, my guy! You know that the only way that is true is if you have 2 accounts yourself and duel. You can’t do it with 1 account and selfcap. Also the big problem is the raidlogging. Not being able to play is the big problem. It doesn’t fix the problem and you know it. I f anything my earlier suggestion solevs all problems for everyone. One server with changes, including MoS, and one without. That solves the problem(s) more than going PvE server argument.
So you understand? Why all the questions about raiding then? It lines up perfectly well. It makes sense.
Yes, alliance is more popular. Yes, more PvE enjoyers chose alliance. This is nothing new. But I state it once again, we are comparing ourselves with ourselves (individuals, not factions). Competition being with everyone. You, me everyone!
MOS and getting rend as alliance is not valid buff Alliance should ever have for raiding in Classic. Its just common entittlement that cries of many players having the same for both factions despite it was ment to be only for one. Same like for example winterpsring mount is only for alliance in vanilla and classic.
SOD is getting MOS only because classes, and speccs, racials were completely rewamped for both sides.
You can link whatever you want they just cant see that they just want more power. Depsite you link them ovepresented warriors in p6 raiding on alliance side. Despite alliance favourable PVE. You cant stop lust for more.
Thank you for reversing the changes I rarely go on the forum to comment but these changes had me furious as hell. For me the biggest change was the polearm change for druids as that was a direct balance change and can lead to a massive snowball effect of changes into the balance of the game and completely ruin classic. I don’t like the things you kept either but UI changes do not interfere directly with gameplay.
Overall, I won’t buy TWW on release but I may give it a try later on since classic era has been the reason I’m subbed for the last few years.
You are not Blizzard, nor have you ever been Blizzard. Alliance able to get Rend is as vanilla/classic as you can get and it’s been known forever and never fixed so it can’t be a bug. Entitlement would also be to gatekeep a buff both sides were supposed to have. See what I did there? Just like you I pretended to know exactly what Blizzard intended and not. Yet again, mounts are cosmetic and if you know the game you’d know that horde were supposed to have a similar vendor for raptor located in Un’goro Crater. Again, stop pulling things out your a**.
If it’s because you are envious of warriors on alliance side I’d suggest you open a petition for class changes. I don’t think you’ll get far with it, but it seems classes balance is your problem, not MoS or Rend
So if it was intended to get it as Alliance but only in Orgrimar it was also intended in your world and not a bug.
So accept that. Fact is we have overpresented warriors in raids in p6 you call for MOS. Fact is that PVE on Alliance is easier FACT. You dont need MOS. You actually need not having that option at all. For good balanced game.
I dont even know who on the Earth would take parsing meta seriously in classic, when its all about making game easier and easier to aquire what previous people had to work hard for.
Like parsing should not be even a thing at all in normal world in game that changes stuff to comfort lazy players.
You are loosing pretty much ground here. If you are trying suggest that I am envious of warriors and thats why I call for not having MOS in game or remove Rend Bug. I just point at statistics that support the point that you dont need Rend or MOS in game as Alliance and it wanst really intended to have it for Alliance as in P6 alliance wars already having it easy in classic in pve.
Surely if alliance could get it, it was known by the developpers, that was the meta, and they didn’t change it, yes, alliance was intended to get the buff. Ofc!
Warriors being overrepresented is well known and it’s as classic as can be. What you are here to discuss, it seems, is class balance. You are welcome to do so, but I’m not getting into that one here. Feel free to express yourself and what you wish to happen. I’d be far more worried by them changing classes, but you go ahead!
People wanna play that way and has since classic release at the very least, so it would seem it’s here to stay.
We are not talking warriors being overpresented as issue of class design. I already said I am using this stat as proof you dont need MOS for successful parsing for Alliance warriors. Nor for any alliance raid.
I am stating ony fact that its unlogical taking parsing seriously because you guys change the game in favour of yourself to beat people who did records on parsing without QoL.
Thats why parsing basicaly means nothign thanks to changes.
Again, MoS doesn’t give any advantage over Rend when it comes to raidperfomance. All the top parsers had Rend. All that would happen would be that people could play more. It’s of no advantage at all when it comes to raid performance and therefor parses. None.
Because the incentives to PvE on Alliance are greater than to PvE on Horde.
It directly affects PvE performance, ergo faction balance. Specially and specifically if changes are made to appease PvE performers. You also said it before, Alliance is already superior PvE. And this without MoS.
Ok, then its a subjective opinion. Mine is that if PvE is the main focus relative to changes, and Alliance > Horde PvE-wise, then faction imbalance follows.
By PvP I mean ranking up and earning honor based on winning battlegrounds. Now you, who I assume do not PvP since you do not mention the PvP to PvE transformation that has ocurred on Era, can PvE your way up to R14 without winning a single AV
SoD servers have changes and have MoS.
And with MoS, Alliance will be ever more popular, and MORE PvE enjoyers will choose Alliance b/c there is zero incentive to join the Horde.
You do have the most overpowered class in the most overpowered faction in the game. This causes faction issues. You are entitled to your opinion, but not to our understanding nor support. Specially when griefing on a PvE server is a non-issue and when SoD has MoS and changes.
But Era with PvE fine-tuning and SoD changes is a no no, specially when it only benefits one faction and one class. No thanks. This is it for me on this.
It gives you easy advantage to get it for all alliance raid. If you really wanna competite so hard you had option to roll or move to PVE cluster to get your buff for ‘‘free’’.
If there were any serious reasons to have MOS for Alliance in Vanilla it would be done so in Vanilla.
Fact is that Rend was only for horde and never made it to Alliance only proves that Horde needed it to be on parse with Alliance.
Abusing bug which allowed it get on Alliance, you can take only as unfixed bonus.
True and it has been known always. There would have to be class changes for that to disappear, that’s not what we are discussing here. At least not what I’m about. Those would be huge changes. Bigger than anything we’ve seen in classic/era. I’m not sure we are superior without Rend. Horde is already parsing better in certain situations with us having the buff. They are also not doing bad. Just in Naxx EU top horde damage is number 5 on overall damage. Top 10 has 3 horde and of the top 12 damage there’s 5 horde. Not having Rend or equivalent would make horde the supreme PvE’ers and PvP’ers. Only with Rend or similar I would state that alliance is superior in PvE.
PvP detagging has taken away but I don’t see any increase in horde population. Maybe changes like that (such as MoS) doesn’t affect the player base as much. But yes, we are both guessing about the outfall.
I have PvP’d quite a bit. Before era I ranked 1 char to rank 11 and one to 9. Then gave up. The PvP was just that bad. There were PvP events that were fun, but most of the time I couldn’t attend due to raidlogging. In era, I rank one char to rank 11 in the old system and stopped there because much on the so called pvp was running sands in silithus. In the new system I’ve rank 2 chars to rank 14, one with decay and one without. It was all bad and not really that fun, main difference is that I didn’t feel I was competing against my own faction in BGs and the world. It felt that we were (mostly) working together and not against eachother. Rank 14 is a weird thing that everyone could have gotten easily but some people chose to gatekeep behind 20hours/day grind. It’s not like that anymore though. Everyone could have gotten it with 10 mins/week. It’s always been more about the time available to you than actual skill.
Still a different game and you know it. We don’t see eye to eye on this one, that’s obvious. Why you suggest it as a solution when it’s not, and that you know it’s not, is beyond me. While a server completely as they said era was gonna be would fix your problems. SoD, nor retail will fix ours.
Maybe, maybe not. I still really wanna play horde and go bonkers with WF. But every time I’ve tried I’d have to stop and take a break away from horde. Horde plays differently and that’s exciting for some of us.
You think paladins are the most overpowered class in the game? Well, that’s class balance and I’m not gonna go into that. You want to have paladins on horde, you do you and advocate for that. MoS will not fix that nor change that.
Still doesn’t fix the problem and you know it. That’s why you don’t adress the raidlogging part of it. Making a nochanges server is not a good solution it’s just that it’s so much better than PvE server transfer or SoD/retail solution. Simply because it fixes the problems.
There is no tuning. Experience will remain the same with the implementation of MoS. It wont change raids or performance. It could be a SoD change or it could have been planed for both this whole time. But I get what you are saying. Again, stating that it only benefits one faction is blatantly untrue. It’s correct that it’s mostly for one faction (alliance) but as stated earlier, there seems to be benefits for horde as well.
If you actually bothered reading my posts you’d know that it doesn’t fix the problem, so it’s not a solution. However a server you can transfer to with absolutely no changes would solve your problems. Again, it’s not a good solution, it’s just better than yours.
That’s just not true and you know it. We know for a fact that developers didn’t even tune raids with buffs in mind before Naxx. What you are saying is just wrong and saying it over and over again doesn’t make it true.
With all of this said I believe both sides have made their points in this MoS matter and are beginning to reapeat themselves. I’ll give it a rest and hope Blizzard actually take our passion for the game serious and we all get something out of this. Thanks for the discussion. Have a great one <3
The same fate would follow Firemaw’s Horde, where the changes discussed here going to be introduced.
You mentioned competition and warcraftlogs btw. and I looked it up. You can find the stats somewhere up there in another one of my comments. I think they are pretty telling as to the state of PvE on Era, specially considering the specific faction AND class asking for this is.
