Oh I do have a clue. You apparently don’t. Also, if you’re on Gehennas, toss me the name of your character. I’ll do ya the favor of blacklisting you in 7 guilds.
Not gonna play with some dipsh!t ninja.
Also: You barely read what I wrote, kek. 2/10 nice troll.
Did you need or masterloot?
The issue lies within the incentive the tool provides (or lack of it). So yes, you can blame the tool.
When you don’t NEED to do something, you’re not going to do it unless you REALLY want to make an effort.
When you NEED to do it, it becomes a normal thing, and eventually something you might want to do. There lies the difference.
All in all it largly comes down to subjective opinion. Your opinion is that its a ‘predetermined attitude’ as to why people don’t enjoy BfA and many expansions previous to that. It’s probably safe to say a large majority (maybe not an overwhelming majority) stoped enjoying retail after WotLK primarily because large portions of how the game was played ended up changing. Aside from the obvious panda’s ect.
The issue is, like with all game development powerhouses - they ‘ASSUME’ what the player wants and often get it wrong. They told the player base ‘You don’t want that’ or ‘remember when you had to do this & this to find a group’. The wasn’t what people were asking for, they were asking for the game to return to it’s roots.
My issue with retail, is based on a combination of design, colour scripts, animation and gameplay. Everything in BFA is brown. The animations are stale and uninspiring and don’t get me started on class armour designs because that sh!!!t has been bad since Panda Land. I tried BfA and I wanted to like it, I really did. But it was god awful. I gave up after a week because it was just absolutely terrible. Pirate themed but not really? It’s like a half way house between the Iron Islands and Pirates of the Caribbean with no real commitment to either. That’s just one small part of a much larger picture that’s muddy to say the least.
The social aspect of the game died shortly after WotLK group finder, yeah a brilliant tool but it killed any point in talking to the next person because anyone and their mom could join a group- auto attack through a dungeon and complete whatever objective was required.
Ultimately by making the game too accessible and catering to a wider audience the magic was kind of lost? Now, that’s not to say you can’t be casual in classic - you absolutely can, but it requires interaction regardless of what level you choose to play on.
Ultimately your argument is flawed, purely because you’re not looking at it objectively - you’re digging too deep into what YOU like and how YOU want to see the world (of warcraft).
To each their own right? Surely you can appreciate that there’s an overwhelming number of players wanting to play classic because it’s actually fun.
Take it with a pinch of salt mate, you enjoy yours - we will enjoy ours.
Bfa to me feels like playing Legend of Zelda, “you are the main hero” where as classic i feel like a dumb solider whos signed up for an adventure which you dont know where ot will lead or take you due to the choices you make depending on your level and skill. Basically classic feels more of an mmo than just an rpg which i get from playing retail.
Just a troll. Cos you don’t like tht people like classic…?
Ok you do not need to talk to people via the LFG tool but then that is the choice made by the person using the tool, I have had far more successful M+ runs where the people actually communicate as a group rather than a bunch of people who join and do not talk.
All the tool does is give you access to other people on other realms much like the internet allows me to talk to people on the other side of the world, Its my choice if i decide to chat to people or not.
I still remember in Vanilla inviting people and runs going to sh** halfway through because they had to leave, or they ragequit because we was failing on a boss.
So basically even though it,s Classic there will still be the restrictions in the end game just you watch, You not done Molten Core so you have no chance to get into Blackwing Lair groups.
Or IO will update their API to give you scores based on your completed dungeons and Oh look you not done Blackrock Depths well we dont wanna take him.
The WoW players of today are FAR more advanced than the WoW players of 2004 hence why Ragnaros has already been killed after 4 days of Classic release and they also did not even need a full 40 man for it.
Min-Maxxing back in Vanilla was not such a big thing back then so please take off your rose tinted glasses for a moment and just think back to the guy who ninja,ed your copper ore whilst you was fighing a mob, or the guy who ninja,ed Shadowfang from you because it was twink item…
Hey man, the Legend of Zelda happens to be my favorite videogame series. Don’t you dare talk crap about Zelda by comparing it to BFA, you big meanie.
I agree and disagree with the topic.
Disagree in fact that was mentioned b4 - game ain’t rewarding that much so you don’t need anybody, most content (except M+ and heroic/mythic raid) don’t need anybody. So associal people love it.
I agree that people don’t even want to talk ot do smth together. Just for example: running through Mechagon and doing some casual stuff I often find people that struggle and are at low HP but still got mobs on them (especially in that “city” where you farm parts of bots), so I just land near, shield them and helping them staying alive while I also help him/her to kill that mobs (Disc FTW), also buffing stam (he/she don’t need it, just cause I can buff). And that’s it. I don’t need anything from him/her, it’s just MMORPG and you just can help or not - your choice. Same as when I pulled too much - usuallu NOBODY helps, even when they see I am mostly healer (Still Disc priest is a healer) so they just run near, or just final hit mob so they also contribute.
It’s not about game. It’s all about community.
its attidude like yours that you should keep it in retail why so salty if others are having fun ?
The thing about classic. it forces your hand more than retail, the experience has become so automated and made people lazy. I understand what your saying in regards to having the ability to speak and these players choose to remain silent however, those players don’t have a choice in classic if they want to achieve the same things.
The social aspect of the game is forged by necessity, and in retail that had been taken away.
Its not an personal choice when blizzard changes your loved classic into a Kids wow with 3 talent choose system and a ton more.
I tried alot of new wow expansions but after wotlk it got more and more worse and it wasnt anymore my game.
Classic brings the old days back and i wish they will keep it like it is and only ad more content / dungeons to it without changing the level cap and rules on itself
or another analogy:
retail = kids with smartphones staying at home and writing each other
Classic = kids without smartphones are forced to run out to talk to each other.
I wear no rose-tinted goggles. I’m fully aware vanilla (and by extension Classic) wasn’t and isn’t perfect.
It’s still exactly the type of game WoW should have kept being though.
And I’ll repeat it for you, since it doesn’t seem to go through: IF THE TOOL DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO DO SOMETHING, IT DOES NOT PROVIDE AN INCENTIVE FOR YOU TO DO IT.
The KEY is the INCENTIVE.
I don’t care if you choose to socialize or not, the KEY is that in Classic… You HAVE to. End of story.
And of course you shouldn’t be randomly allowed into higher tier dungeons/raids if you haven’t done their predecessors, nobody wants to carry others into free progress and loot lol. We want to struggle together and earn our stuff together.
Also, yes, we’re far more advanced today, but you can’t use the Raggy example as a general basis my friend. APES spent MONTHS killing Raggy, continuously dumping their gear threshold lower and lower to check their limits. They know the fight better than they know their loved ones.
I can assure you that we aren’t gonna see half the server done with Raggy and Ony in a few weeks. Because using a select few hardcore tryhards as an example for the rest of the playerbase is ridiculous.
funny too 
You say that you can socialise in BFA, but clearly, you don’t understand what people actually like about classic. BFA Has no server community. Servers dont matter due to LFR and Cross realm. In classic you make friends outside off your guild outside off dungeons etc.
That is what people wanted. A social World. Not just a social guild. Also I dont know about others, but every time I try speaking the rest of the people just tell me to shut up and are toxic as hell. Meanwhile, ive had more conversations, met up with more people outside my guild then I ever did in retail. The silence on retail isn’t due to classic players. Its due to the crowd blizzard has attracted in its single player game.
I think people are extremely delusional about it, inventing highlights where there’s downfall.
I read many times in the last days what a great social experience the “sudden invite situation” is (ninja invite). Honestly?
It’s such an obvious lack in social behaviour, just as obvious as “don’t stand in the fire”. Which is precisely why for years and years Blizzard tried to teach the most basic rules of mmorpgs in the loading screen - you could read “don’t stand in the fire” …. right next to: “talk to someone before inviting them”.
“TALK TO SOMEONE BEFORE INVITING THEM”
Now suddenly the new age derp, desperately blowing classic up, wants to tell me ninja-inviting is proving classic the social experience everyone was missing.
Sure, try again. I’m interested to see how long your delusions last.
If Guilds could spend hours & days on the PTR on a Mythic boss, that boss would go down within hours of the raids release, instead of days like we see on the world first races.
This is exactly what happened with Ragnaros, APES spent the months after the announcement perfecting their leveling strategy & raid composition…
Ok and what is the incentive ?? The tool does NOT give you a reward for talking to people.
You might need to talk to people to form a group in CLassic/Vanilla but the fact remains that, You will still get groups who are “LF X Class for X instince” and then when X Class joins, You,ll get a “Hi” and that,ll be as far as it will go.
Which is essentially what the LFG tool provides just a way of “breaking the ice” and being able to make a group without standing around in a city spamming “LFM X instance”.
People will need to communicate less in Classic due to the complexity of boss fights are not as complicated then as they are now.
The point you are making here is that you have to socialize to get anywhere in Classic which is untrue as I can clearly remember levelling 1-60 without actually needing to socialise with people.
This is the kind of elitist attitude which basically ended up with people being excluded from such content permanently because how do you get into higher content if you never get the chance to set foot inside it? Someone somewhere has to give you a chance to actually prove yourself in this content.
This amplifies the message at exactly how much of an open book Classic is I guarantee that there was no World First ragnaros kill 4 days after Vanilla launch, So all the content that Classic has to provide is almost trivial as nothing has to be “discovered”, People know the best classes to take, the best talents to take and the best gear.
I really hate when you go to social conventions or team building events and everything there is build up around being in a group. It forces my hand when I have to build a human pyramid with other people. The grouping is forged by necessity and with the introduction of human sized dolls that has been taken away.
Different games/things are made for different purposes. WoW Classic is an, and read this slowly, massive multiplayer online game. That is multi-player to you, sir. Not single-player.
Why aren’t you on the BfA forums complaining about not being able to do current raids solo? They are forcing your hand afterall, locking mythic raids at 20 people.
Excuse my passive aggressiveness, but the amount of people coming in here just to rant about something with absolutely no reasoning behind it is getting tedious.
But yes, it forces your hand and if you are into the social aspect of the game, it wont matter to you. Because that’s what you want. That’s what we want.
Why do you think we have been advocating for Classic for a decade?
I agree with your arguement because me too I do have a community in BFA I talk too (guildies) but this is a luxury position not everyone has and tbh unless someone is in my guild in BFA then well screw 'm unless we want the same thing
I’ll give some other arguements as to why I think classic is better as someone who didn’t play vanilla and have had no prior experience
The world around you is dangerous
It forces you to be mindful and careful of where you go, if you dont you’ll get squashed by elite skulls in low level regions, this makes the game so much more immersive then BFA could ever be
Many things are only possible in a group in the open world
Which means a lot of groups are made
I have added 5 people to my friendlist in classic in 3 days not counting guildies, in retail I havent added people since WoD because there is absolutely no reason too outside of a guild
Everything has a use
I’m actually fishing and its great cause I can Dodge vendor food and I have yet to run out of money for new skills which wasnt how I remember TBC atleast, either way I can find the patience to fish because I know it pays off in a major way which cant even be compared to Retail, yes you can do the same things with it but the impact is so much more greater in classic which makes it much more fulfilling
Professions matter
Beyond anything in BFA, it cannot be compared
Gear marters
I’m excited about nearly being full green at level 14
I dont care about gear at all beyond ilvl in BFA
I play retail for M+ and RP with guildies but outside of that I stopped all solo content because imo unless you have people to have fun with in BFA and not in classic BFA has only one thing that it does better then classic and that’s boss mechanics