Classic is really deluding many people

You say “The WoW players of today are FAR more advanced than the WoW players of 2004 hence why Ragnaros has already been killed after 4 days of Classic release and they also did not even need a full 40 man for it.” but you seem to be missing the point that, retail players haven’t killed MC yet. Apes have, Ya know, the People who have been playing PServers for almost 12 years who have had those bosses worked out for years and have planned how they can get World first for months too.

At the moment, only one guild has cleared MC and Ony, and they were basically the pros.

You may rationalize it all you want, but in the end the facts are - people dont talk in BFA but they do talk in Classic. Because they have to, otherwise they wont get half the content done. BFA created an environment (I’m not saying bad) where you can solo end content easily - LFR is literally solo mode. You just click a button, get teleported, say HI to a bunch of mutes, get no response, smash your rotation for 15 minutes and win all the loots. I don’t hate it - actually its nice to relax, not to think about logistics and see the story of end game raids.
But lets not pretend its completely the same in Classic.

ONSLAUGHT killed Rag 2 nights ago, others have prolly done so as well we just might not know about it. They might have killed Onyxia as well already. Rag is a joke, the only thing preventing other guilds to kill him is they don’t have enough players at or close to 60.

Why are you such a partypooper? Let people enjoy whatever game they want to enjoy and you do your own thing. Geez…

I would love to see solo Mythic Jaina, or solo M+20, Just because some of the lower content such as LFR (Which is just a free way to view the new raid content in case some people do not have guilds or choose not to)

I think the problem is that a lot of people are confusing the contents here LFR is a tool for solo people to view the raid and its environment NOT to provide an accurate raiding experience.

It would be like asking a level 60 that Stormwind Stockades should require a group.

No one forces people to do LFR same as no one forces you to do Mythic Jaina but the content is completely different.

Also how many people in Classic are either just killing the same mobs for “efficient XP” or actually doing all the quests, Or being boosted by their friend in a dungeon multiple times for XP.

All of these things happen in BFA, I saw Asmongold just farming the same mobs in a group for hours and hours the other day is this a Classic experience??

Who the hell are onslaught? first time ive heard off them sorry.

Well yes, that is kind of my point. In BFA no one is forcing you to do anything and you still get to see the content (edit - maybe content is bad word… raid? I know mechanics are different). In Classic, unless you open your mouth (or… chat channel) you just don’t get to kill that elite or see that raid. It’s forcing people to be more talkative and social. Whether its good or bad is personal choice, I like both from time to time.

Exactly! :wink: Nobody, just a random guild that had enough players at or close to 60 to form a 30+ ppl raid and they killed him. I mean they prolly prepared for it, I dont wanna take credit away from them, perfected leveling routes, grinded XP and got enough players to do the raid.

So what you are saying is that there should be some content which should be restricted for only the best of the best to see or people in successful raiding guilds?

I think this is what caused people to moan about “Why cant I even go inside Black Temple or SSC, etc” and why LFR was invented to show people this content even in a much lower difficulty setting.

Also this belief of exclusivity just because you was in a guild who killed Mythic Jaina means that no one else is allowed to see Jaina is ridiculous all it does is provide a divide between the community because not everyone is going to be in a raiding guild succesful enough to do that.

So I do not see the harm in LFR myself, I killed heroic Ghuun and I dont even think i set foot in LFR once.

Exactly my point. In Vanilla, it was rewarding to talk to people, not only because you’d have a better time during the run, but because you might make lasting friendships. All the cross server stuff just doesn’t make you feel attached and doesn’t give off the vibe that you might need to socialize to actually get somewhere.

I never said you needed to socialize while levelling 1-60. But the incentive is there, as is the incentive to help others out because “we” share “the struggle”. Ever wonder why people stopped buffing each other while running past? Stopped helping each other out with a mob before running on?

There’s no struggle. There’s no meaning to helping each other. That’s retail.

What have I seen since day 1 again on Classic? The struggle. The mutual unspoken concept of helping each other out whenever, wherever. You see a druid running around? He’s likely to buff ya. You ask that mage for some food/water? Coming right up. That hunter’s pet hangry? The group brings out the fishing rods and have at it.

How is it elitist to tell someone “I’m not gonna let you do BWL until you’ve done MC a few times and gotten some proper gear so you’re not deadweight in BWL”?

I see no elitism there. I’m not saying “you gotta have BWL on farm before I believe you can do BWL”. I’m saying “If you want to do the content, you need to have appropriate gear, so that even if you’re bad, you’ll bring something to the table”.

Just like how people are going to request that others farm appropriate pre-raid gear to enter MC. That’s not elitist either.

Of course there was no world first raggy kill 4 days after vanilla launch, nobody knew the encounter.

But what you’re leaving unsaid is that while a lot of people know the encounter now, only few know or remember it well. Even fewer know it like the back of their hand. And only a handful of people know it like APES.

You can argue all the cookie cutter bs you want, it changes nothing. There are “BiS” things to get, but you don’t have to. There are BiS talents, but you don’t have to use them.

That’s not to say you should use some trash build completely devoid of damage for dps or tanking abilities for tanks and so on, but you’re almost free to choose what you want for the most part.

It doesn’t matter if Classic is an open book. It’s a good book.

Lol, you haven’t already?
Totally agreed. If everyone goes into classic with a social mindset and only log into bfa with an antisocial one it doesn’t make classic a better product.

People who really believe that a 15 year old version of WoW is objectively better today than BFA are hopeless.

Don’t worry, you are not alone feeling disappointed, but that’s humanity for you. Just lose the faith already and keep going on.

My enjoyment of WoW is definitely not a delusion, neither is the abundant socializing I’ve done, even as low as lvl 16 :slight_smile: I don’t know about retail so I’m not comparing, I haven’t played retail and I will keep it that way because of how Cata ruined the old world and streamlined the leveling process, making it feel overdesigned and very game-y.

I’m not saying that retail is bad or anything, I couldn’t say it as I’ve never played. Just by seeing some streams and Youtube content though, I just know that it’s not for me. To each their own though :slight_smile:

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What does this say about people though? It means people in themselves don’t care about others unless it suits them. This does not mean that the game is now suddenly filled with altruistic good-hearted individuals who just love to help others while being complete pieces of trash in retail. Trash people in bfa will be trash people in classic. They will however be a bit more contained for fear of bad reputation and will interact with others out of necessity and selfish reasons such as being easier to tag a named mob.

People can be kind and friendly in BFA. They’re not because they don’t want to. You can argue that it is because they don’t need to, but that just says they’re not very desirable people to begin with.

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there are so many ways .

i could write instruction on how to effectively ninja and get no repercussions.

over the years of playing wow i have not even once been approached by anyone about this.

its a myth that people care - you some outliners out there do care but majority dont give any f…s :slight_smile:

I don’t like the “x is better than y” argument. Simply because that’s exactly what “You think you do, but you don’t” was. Classic and retail are just two different games. They will get different people that enjoy playing each. Some might even like both. This whole two camps model is where the problem is.

That said. While you CAN buff in the wild, on retail. It’s been a while since I played properly (I did level my old pala a bit recently). Anyway, I don’t recall a drive by buff happening. I don’t recall ever having someone ask to group for something (almost everything is solo-able, but even group quests people just skip. Not worth the effort). My point is, there’s not really any tangible benefit to social interaction.

Whereas the levelling process of classic, is a much bigger part of the game. Many normal quests are much harder (or at least slower) if you try to do it yourself. Grouping up makes sense, and it happens all the time. Drive by buffs happen, all the time.

I’m having a lot of fun, slowly levelling and enjoying the old game. I don’t think it’s “better”, I just think it’s better for me.

I think I do, and it turns out I do!

eh i still remember threads on mmochamp how people will have to run dungeons and farm fire resist gear ::slight_smile:

while people did it in quest greens and on level 57-58

endgame in classic is complete joke.

What newcomers have to understand is that Classic is a 15 year old game. It was THE FIRST big mmorpg, so it was the first big amazing experience for millions of players.

After Vanilla ended and people could no longer play it all they had of it were memories. With expansions passing, these memories turned brighter and brighter, because no matter what the new expansions brought, it was never THAT FIRST mmo experience.

15 years have passed and all people had of Classic until now were childhood memories and awesome first impression stories read on the internet. Praising Classic and the good old times became a very strong trend. Many people aren’t capable of understanding that the first good game you try out in a genre isn’t necessary better than the 100th one, it’s just a much more amazing experience because it’s totally fresh for you. It won’t be better for all the newcomers to the genre.

What you should understand is that the vast majority of people aren’t objective or responsible when it comes to new players. Praising Classic and hating Current wow became the cool thing to do, it generates reddit karma, forum upvotes, youtube views, etc. It became a strong trend, and with time people actually believed their delusions. They stopped seeing cool first time experience stories, they started seeing a game forged in heaven programmed by gods, supported by angels. Note that during that time the only option to try it out were garage project private servers, so people just kept dreaming without actually trying it out.

Now that Classic is out you can definitely see the hype falling down, because from now on people can see that it’s a dated 15 year old version of wow with barely any end game content, the leveling is more tedious than ever, there are no cool reworked quests, only the archaic, unimaginative “kill 20 loot 20 gather 20” quests that worked back then, the game is not challenging as promised, people were simply super bad at the game back then. People have leveled to max and killed all the raid bosses without a full raid, without even all of them being max level players. People were also in lowlevel gear. They did it within 5 days of Classic’s launch.

The praised big social experience is hit and miss, but people expect it on Classic so it has a bit higher chance to occur there. Again, that’s thanks to the mentality and expectations of the people, not because of the game. It has lots of player-harassing old game mechanics that don’t really serve any enjoyment purpose, they were just the trend 15 years ago.

TL DR:
Current WoW will always be the most refined version of WoW, it’ll always be the best for totally newcomers to WoW, you wouldn’t play GTA 1 instead of GTA 5, same thing applies to WoW. It has 100 times the content, 100 times the features. It remained the top 1 mmorpg for 15 years for a good reason.

Don’t bury modern wow based on what you hear about it from the deluded fans of a 15 year old game, in which community Rule #1 is basically to Hate modern WoW. They often nitpick very hard to find stuff they can spit on, and dismiss literally everything else that doesn’t support their agenda. Try them both out and choose yourself. Never trust the media before you give time for the hype to die down.

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I generally agree with you, but to be completely fair, Classic is based on patch 1.12, which has a lot of class buffs and bosses nerfs. When you add the 15 years of experience and knowledge I have no clue how some people expected anything in classic to be any sort of a challenge whatsoever.

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See, and in just five seconds, I can discredit your entire post.

1 guild.

There we go. That was easy.

You’re a Retail shill.

Go play Retail.

And yes, I tried it. I’ve played all the bloody expansions since vanilla, and I played vanilla.

Modern WoW is not WoW. It’s trash. It’s not “refined”, it’s a completely different experience that reminds one vaguely of instant gratification mobile games.

Now let us enjoy Classic, as it is the premium WoW experience available atm (personally I enjoyed TBC and WotLK more, but Vanilla was dope too. Anything post-WotLK was absolute garbage. They lost their touch.)

And believe me, I’ve been in your shoes. I’ve been a retail shill. “It’ll get better”. “They’re working on it.” “Surely we’ll be able to be proud of the game in a year or so, they’re doing their best!”

Retail has only gotten worse, and it will continue on that route. I was super hyped for BFA actually, it seemed like WoW would return to greatness. Yeah, didn’t happen.

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I would agree. Except that the premise of this thread is actually the polar opposite. It’s hating on classic in favour of retail.

The fact is, these game will attract different players. If this isn’t you, play retail. Don’t let the reddit classic trolls trigger you. Most of us don’t care. These two games can really co-exist.

Yes, the hype is definitely going to die down. I expected it would have already. But I’m still seeing some silly queues when I try to play. So, apparently not yet. But in the end, there will be a solid community, enjoying an old game we used to play. Some new players that are curious and enjoy the different play model will also stick around.

Other will return to retail, or play both. Some people that signed up to play classic again might even try retail and realise they like it.

Because, this might be a newsflash. People, are, different.

Really not sure why either side needs to turn this into a x vs y thing.