The argument is neither about it being too long not too hard but about it now being gated behind very specific content. You could equally argue that profs are not meant for raiders as they will be doing the content that drops equivalent gear in the first place. It’s about choices and options being removed time and time again to force everyone into one single gearing route nomatter what aspects of the game they are actually interested in.
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Not a casual player but all my proffs are dead because I don’t and refuse to raid on them. So professions are now for raiders only? AWESOME! We can delete it then from the game. Point remains professions are in such a bad state they were outdated the moment 8.2 went live. The only worthile to maybe sell for new alts or players is for dual wielding classes, rest is BoP and pearl gear is always better than what you can craft. Except maybe for insciption due to having a new BoE IL 400 trinket. JC didn’t even get new 370 rings to craft.
In Legion you were forced to dungeons to get any profit or use from professions now you need to raid or you have nothing worthwhile to craft.
profession based GEAR is for raiders. yea.
What exactly is the usage of a 450 gear for you if you’re so casual?
Like i said. Complain about the bad state of professions. Don’t complain about putting high end gear behind a raid restriction.
professions should cater to everybody not just raiders, this stupid “But I would be forced to…” is ruinign this game. Professiosn ahving 0 use for non-raiders is healthy because?
Hence why doesn’t just oturight remove them. Crafting 440 BOP socketed gear for raiders is it’s only use now. making money with them? They are a gold dump… Most of them. Why should professions only cater to raiding chars?
Know how professions sued to cater to both? Raiding dropepd recipes that required raid mats, could even AH those mats and plans! People had access to them and the best thing? BoE! You could make money selling them. We used to divide raiding plans by mains and then alts so eventually I was able to craft Dragon Soul crafted gear even on my non-raiding chars. Took time in my case but people could also buy the plans. Yet I was the first person in the guild to receive the BS plans.
Sorry to say it, but this make professions worthless except to raiding chars shouldn’t be. For raiding chars it’s a gold dump (gear is BoP) and for non-raiding chars it isn’t profitable (370 Il max, tokens are 385). How did we ever come to this?
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It doesn’t really make alot of sense to have raid gear in the professions as the whole point of raiding is to get gear… I mean that would be like negating the point in actually going to raid in the first place.
Yes they used to do it, it gave people who didn’t raid, the opportunity to acquire patterns and gear, some by buying them from raiders, or other players as you say.
Unfortunately we can now buy gold via tokens, brought in to counter cheats, bots and gold buyer/sellers, so it would bring a p2w aspect to the game, which is probably why they don’t do it any more. It’s easier to just chuck everything into a raid.
Players are even getting around that by buying and selling boosts. If I was a Blizz dev I’d feel like my job was just trying to out manoeuvre the players who always seem to look for shortcuts, cheats and bypasses. Players don’t seem to want to actually play the game. What with all their add-ons, skips, boosts and complaints. 
They know how. They do. Most of the same people are still working there that were in Wrath, and even earlier. They haven’t all hit their heads and suffered retrograde amnesia.
They deliberately want to make them borderline irrelevant.
I had assumed it was related to the “dungeon in a lunch break” philosophy - though that, as well, is hard to square with the long time-gated achievements for flying.
But that recent statement, whose veracity I’d love to verify, that 70% of WoW activity is now in China, makes me wonder whether there’s a local component to this as well.
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That’s one side-effect of the Token.
The main effect is to bring in a mountain of dollarz to Blizzard Central.
I am quite sure that boosts as a motivation for buying Tokens was one of the central planks in the argument for introducing them. The Two-Stroke Gold Pump mechanism that we saw in WoD and Legion (and may yet see in BfA) is hard to understand if Money->Token->Boost was not Part of the Plan.
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It’s quite legitimate to complain about it being behind a raid restriction as not everyone raids. Effectively it gives the message to everyone who doesn’t raid that they should stop their subs now as that’s the only thing that will give players any means of getting gear. What use is that crafted gear…well pvp for a start, world or otherwise, general world questing and not forgetting just being able to complete the prof you’ve chosen to spend years levelling before this content wall was implemented. Then of course there’s having the ablity to AH the pieces you’ve made which has also been taken away or is no one allowed to make any gold other than by raiding?
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Which post are you refering to ? Afaik there were about half of the total playerbase in EU/NA back in 2011 i’m curious about such ratio.
I posted about it here, with links.
I never did go back to check who the (ex-?) employee of Blizz was. Not going to sit for 8 hours to do that!
profession you spent Years leveling? You might have missed a few things but just to give you an example, I ended up maxing both cooking and jewelcrafting with around 20~30k gold in total. Took a day, EACH.
And you think that gives me the right to craft 445 rings the next day? If that’s the case, then why should anyone raid for that ring? Simply spend 20k on one single person, have them ready to craft, call the whole guild to just gather ores and in a couple of days, you have full gear for every member of the guild by teamwork. I don’t know how you can’t see how ridiculous it is to allow this to be a thing for a guy who spends 20k lvling a profession to max in a day.
You want to complain about professions? That’s valid. Gear, IS NOT. SPECIALLY not a gear that’s better than mythic raid.
They are rng, but being able to craft a 440 ring with a guaranteed socket is nothing to be sniffed at.
In the old days you also where able to craft high quality BOE gear. ITs pointless right now.
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It’s quite clear you are insistant that the only means of gaining gear should be via raiding. That’s how you like to play the game and that’s absolutely fine. Others like to be able to choose alternate routes and the current system completely blocks that opportunity. I’ve had LW on a char since TBC so yes, years. Even longer with enchanting on another char and that one sorted out enchants for the raiders.
No one at all has commented on ease or speed of crafting being what’s desired yet you continually come back to that. It’s about alternate routes to gearing, which we used to have.
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Honestly, crafting feels like one of the many areas in this expansion that is poorly thought out and lazily executed with the minimum amount of effort required to make it technically function.
This game has lost a lot of its soul.
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Here’s what i’m trying to explain, did 3 times and you still miss the point.
I DON’T MIND ALTERNATE WAYS OF GEARING.
I DO MIND SOMEONE BEING ABLE TO GET MYTHIC LEVEL GEAR WITH PROFESSIONS WITHOUT BEING AT LEAST A HEROIC RAIDER.
The current system might be faulty or unfaulty or whatever. But at least, it prevents any casual player who never touches a raid to be able to get MYTHIC LEVEL GEAR effortlessly.
Is this too hard to understand?
Alternate gears you got from professions back in the day, was rarely, IF EVER, as good as raid drops. Nowadays professions have the potential of giving you a gear better than mythic do to their GUARANTEED socket. That’s NOT ACCEPTABLE to be easy. IT DEFINITELY should be locked behind raid progression.
Is it easy enough to understand now?
And again. If you have problems with the current status of professions, feel free to discuss things.
LEAVE MYTHIC LEVEL GEAR CRAFTING OUT OF IT.
But its the same as Legion etxept Legion you litterally had to normall or higher in other to progres. And that wasnt just one raid, that was every single raid. You wanted said peace? Go do outdated rate on normall or higher
I’ll refrain from getting equally shouty and patronising. You seem to equate crafting with being zero effort but raiding being maximum effort. If non raiders want to craft gear of equivalent value then how does this affect you in any way?
WoW is supposed to be an MMORPG and it used to be. Players could choose the content or role that they enjoyed and stick with it, whether that be raiding, pvp, questing and so on. Now all of that has been funnelled down one route only for viable gear to use in all aspects of the game. One. That’s the problem. For example, someone who just enjoys pvp is forced to raid to get gear that’s competitive against raiders who only do a bit of pvp. The options have been removed to go down alternate routes such as picking up a couple of decent pieces through crafting profs or enhancing those and other items through the likes of enchanting or adding blacksmithing sockets and so on.
I do see your point, but I disagree with it. There’s a difference.
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Dude. I’m a jewelcrafter. and a casual raider.
It is ZERO EFFORT IN COMPARISON.
you fly around. you farm ore. you make rings. You fly around you collect leather, cloth or whatever and build a gear. That’s not rocket science. It takes around 10~20k gold to max out a profession. And once there, making those things is a cakewalk. So please refrain from considering crafting in such high regards. It’s not. It’s mediocre at best. There used to be a time when you actually had to put effort into it. Nowadays, you don’t.
As for gear being available, You don’t seem to understand the importance of ilvl.
The system has already been bloated with over the top gear drops from mythic+ dungeons, benthic gears being better than the most difficult content drops in raids and world quests and all the other sources of drop. The last thing it needs, is another freebie source of gear that surpasses mythic raiding gear.
There used to be a time when things were different. Now it is what it is. You can’t just put socketed 445 rings and pants and chests or whatever into the mix, with professions without setting up boundaries in their crafting.
What difference does it make if you could make a 440 socketed piece? you’ll sell it in AH, then anyone who spends tokens on items, gets to have the best gears in the game, while those who put time, effort and a lot of experience into what they did, May or may not get a drop which is less powerful, by doing mythic raiding. That’s a pay to win mechanic in an MMORPG. It’s ridiculous and unacceptable. As if boosting wasn’t enough, adding this is just an end to any fairplay this game has left.
Here’s what a healthy MMORPG does.
It provides multiple sources of gear gathering. It gives the best gears to the highest difficulty content. And least useful gears to the lowest difficulty content.
Profession gears without the current restriction doesn’t need much effort. This current system makes it balanced, to not allow anyone with 10k gold in their pockets to craft gear and disrupt the balance of the economy and gear.
Again, you’re failing to understand something very important that i keep repeating and you keep ignoring.
PLEASE READ THIS PART CAREFULLY AND STOP REPEATING THE SAME THING
Gear crafting should be restricted the way it is right now. If you have other valid complaints about professions, feel free to say so. This one IS NOT one of them.
And as for pvp players being forced to pve, What does that have to do with professions? that’s on no pvp vendors being added in BFA. based on the same logic, why are pvp players forced to use professions to gain the gears they want? why can’t they just do pvp and get it? See? It can be used both ways.
PS: caps are not shouting. They’re highlights. Because i’m pretty sure you skip 80% of my words.