I don’t think anyone has ever claimed that it’s actually “impossible” for Alliance to win. It’s just much harder than for Horde due to the map design. That’s why the winrate of Alliance is not even close to 50% even on AV weekend.
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AV weekend proves that the main issue is the reward system and not map balance.
But on AV weekend you are incentivised to go for quick matches even more than regularly.
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Thanks for ur input, but that was not the point i trying to make.
I was giving an example…but yeah there are exlusive ones… My point was not whining about alliance need nerf or horde buff…
No, i just want to get all this retarded glitches and abuses to be gone.
AS a boomer who play for 16years, i think i got a little right to ask for some fixes…
The fact this was not part of original classic (everyone with A legendary first week of mc was not realy vanilla exp either annyways) does not mean u can fix the buffs and glitches vanilla had.
Yes, this is my point. My point is that it’s the queue and reward system that is the main reason for the imbalance and not map balance. My point is also that the map can’t be changed even if it was the main issue, but the reward and queue system can be changed. As soon as you tweak the reward system you get an immediate result. The AV weekend bonus is proof of this.
My main point is to talk about the things that matter and can be tweaked. It’s just destructive to focus on the map that can’t be changed.
But the winrate is still abysmally low on AV weekend where none of the usual arguments apply. Alliance rankers are there on AV weekend so you can’t say Alliance lose because of lack of rankers. Horde are also incentivised to go for shorter games since you get bonus honor once the match finishes so the usual “Horde are motivated to fight longer” doesn’t apply yet the matches tend to be even longer than normally even though both sides should want to end them faster. AV weekends prove conclusively that the major factor why Alliance lose so much is the fact the map favours Horde.
Also I really can’t see why the “no changes” would somehow not apply to rewards from BGs. You can’t use the “no changes” line to say you can’t change anything about the map but then say that changing another part of the game is somehow fine. It just becomes “no changes except ones I like”. The honor system and honor gained from BGs are just as much a part of Classic as anything else.
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Sure glitches should be fixed. The problem is where does one draw the line. For example the way warlocks (or any ranged class) clear DME involves at least 3 instances of things that could be considered a “glitch”. Should those be fixed as well? Or mages clearing basically any dungeon using similar “glitchy” mob pathing. Is DF scaling with +healing also a glitch? Is EM allowing shamans 2 crits instead of the stated 1 a glitch? There are thousands of such little (and not so little) “glitches” in Classic. How do we decide which ones need fixing and which ones are just the way things are in Classic?
That’s a Straw Man argument. You are taking my argument, distorting it and attacking the distortion.
Are you seriously not seeing the mega huge difference in changing the physical world that may or may not be the reason with tweaking some numbers for honor rewards?
The map is not being exploited but the reward system are. It’s literally against the rules to be inactive on purpose. It’s reasonable to fix exploits.
The map that literally was changed in TBC because it favoured horde? And was significantly changed pretty much every patch in vanilla. That map cant be changed?
You cant deny the map spawns have a horde bias, even if you claim its not that big. It wont be that big of a deal to lose this benefit then?
You also know your queues will get better if more alliance want to play the game?
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No I don’t see this “mega huge” difference. In fact you could argue that changing the rewards is a bigger change than changing the map even though changing the map looks like the bigger one since you could actually see it but the reward structure is much more fundamental to Vanilla PvP. And how the hell is the reward system being “exploited”? Well I suppose it is if by “exploited” you mean the “made full use of” meaning but if you use that meaning you can easily apply it to the map as well.
Yes you answered your own question:
Classic is a recreation of Vanilla and not TBC.
It’s irrelevant what opinions you have about the map. It’s an authentic recreation of how the map was in Vanilla retail. It’s not being exploited or used in an unintended way. It’s POINTLESS to talk about the map. It’s even destructive and makes the game less fun when alliance believe the map is reason when it’s not.
Dude, I am fighting for a better AV experience. All the time I am doing this and focusing on the REAL issue that can actually be fixed. The reward and queue system. It’s not the map that is the reason for this situation, it’s the reward and queue system. The map can’t be changed but the reward and queue system can be changed.
If there were any type of game designers on Classic team maybe, but there is not.
So a fundamental change to the reward/queue system wouldnt be breaking an "authentic recreation of Vanilla " but a map change would?
Im not sure why you are so scared to lose your headstart if its not that important.
Why are you making a Straw Man claim? You are taking my argument, disorting it and attacking the distortion.
That’s a very dishonest and stupid way of discussing things.
The queue system is not authentic and moving some numbers around in a reward system to for example tie most of them to the last boss is a freaking HUGE difference from altering an authentic terrain map that is not being exploited. The reward system is being exploited because it’s literally against the rules to be inactive on purpose.
Are you interest in having a serious discussion or will you continue with Straw Man comments?
It really is “no changes except those I like” with these types.
Ok sure, what did i misrepresent about your point about reward/queue changes?
I literally just told you. I can copy it if you somehow missed it:
Here is my main point.
Talking about the map is pointless. The map is an accurate and authentic recreation of the Vanilla map. EVEN IF you could prove that the map is the main reason for this EXTREME and unique result we have in Classic, it would make NO DIFFERENCE because the map is not being exploited and it is working as intended.
So stop talking about the map. It’s not constructive and can never lead to anything positive.
The queue system on the other hand is not authentic and can easily be tweaked.
The reward system is literally being exploited and it’s totally reasonable to fix exploits. The exploit I am talking about is when it’s more rewarding for players to be inactive compared to fighting for a win. If you read the EULA it is specifically not allowed to be inactive.
So the map is out of the question because it’s an authentic recreation that is not being exploited.
The queue is not authentic and the reward system is being explored. It’s REASONABEL to ask for changes in those systems.
You can have any opinions you want about the map but it’s irrelevant and pointless to talk about the map unless you can point to some specific exploits.
Focus on the main issues that actually can be fixed and that is the queue and reward system.
The main issue is that it’s more rewarding for the faction with short queue to lose fast compared to wining slow and vise versa on a map that is designed for slow games.
Here’s a thought: how about instead we just get the authentic queue system. Isn’t justifying a change with a previous change supposed to be a big no no? So now because the queue system was changed it’s ok to change it again? Well ok but then wasn’t the map changed as well and is therefore no longer authentic? And none of this justifies changing anything about the reward system. If anything it means that Blizzard isn’t enforcing their tearms of service. The solution to that is to actually enforce it not do radical and fundamental changes to the honor system that are completely against what Classic was supposed to be.
I fail to see how I misrepresented that. You cant just shout strawman because you disagree.
I dont know why you think the map cant be changed, it already was to stop jumping into the alliance base and getting round the back of icewing.
What effect do you think morale has knowing you lose 98% of games and the horde start 30 seconds closer?
What would you even “fix” about the queue system where 2 sides are imbalanced in population? One side is always going to have to wait longer.
You are taking my argument, disporting it, and attacking the distortion. Present your own argument instead.
Because Classic is a R E C R E A T I O N of Vanilla retail. You can’t change things in a recreation unless there is an exploit or bug that needs to be hotfixed. Blizzard have said many times that authenticity is their main concern. Changing the terrain in the name of balance is out of the question just as it is to change class balance.
This was an united exploit. It is reasonable to hotfix exploits.
The factions are not imbalanced in population. They are almost exactly 50/50:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/614081264751738920/756918582733963294/unknown.png
What do you want here right now? What is your goal when you are attacking this particular detail and ignoring the reward system?