If you wait 1.5 hours to enter a game your anything but focused more likely you will want it over with since you waited so long unless you don’t have a job or life outside wow
It is 100% the map.
It’s not racials as it’s negligible in large scale PvP
It’s not skill level as little skill to be had in large zergs
Read the thread and you’ll find out. Spoiler alert: It wasn’t because of what you seem to think.
No they did not. 15 years ago and in every patch of Vanilla the cave was never moved. It was moved in TBC.
The cave was moved when they REWARD system was changed and the OBJECTIVE of the battleground was changed to a limited resource system.
I totally agree. But the SYSTEM is broken. Do you HONESTLY think some details on a map could make one side lose 100% when it never have before. It’s the SAME MAP as ALWAYS but the QUEUE system and rewards system is not. So why do you think that suddenly in Classic, with the SAME MAP, it’s now the maps fault that one side lose 100% of all game.
How can you not see that the faction with a short queue is at a huge disadvantage when it’s more rewarding to lose fast compared to winning slow? And the faction with a long queue is more rewarded for winning slow compared to losing fast. And this is on a map that is designed for slow games, from both sides. Haven’t you heard of AVs that lasted hours and hours and even days in Vanilla? It’s the REWARD system that makes people choose to end the games as fast as possible. Not some map details.
Horde has drastic advantages in AV, its well known. On top the long ques make them want to slack less where as the Alliance is mostly afk.
Its vanilla, they ban insanely obvious bots once every 4 months, you think they will try to fix AV?
No one have ever claimed that horde doesn’t have advantages in AV. Alliance also have advantages in AV. When you combine them all, and look at AV as a whole, with two teams fighting to WIN, it’s well balanced.
If you have ever been in a premade fighting another premades you would know that. It’s freaking epic and close battles every time. The “drastic advantages” you speak of Horde is only valid against an Alliance team of unmotivated pve players that just want the game to end so they can queue for next asap. Or Alliance that only care about HpH, honor per hour, when winning is irrelevant.
But the reward system is exactly the same as it was in Vanilla. The queue system isn’t but there’s no reason it can’t be other than you lot don’t want it to be. Also in Vanilla Alliance was the one with longer queues. Yet the winrate was never this high (at least I can’t find anyone claming it on old forums).
Nope. Not even remotely true. But you want to believe that Alliance loses 90%+ of the AV fights because we are all just “pve players” and lazy? go right ahead I respect your argument, I mean its a stupid and flawed argument, but I can respect it.
Yes, im sorry, you are correct, iv clearly never done any kind of pvp in my life.
Have you ever played in a premade vs premade in AV?
WTF I have spent weeks trying to explain that it’s the queue and reward system. The motivated rankers are not playing AV becasue the reward system makes it not as rewarding so win slow games in AV.
The problem is the queue and reward system where it’s not rewarding for the faction with s short queue to fight for a slow win. That’s why most motivated allaince don’t play AV, because it’s not rewarding. The allaince that do play AV knows that it’s more rewarding to lose fast compared to fight for a slow win. That’s how they can lose 100% of of the games, becasie winning is not the main goal. The rewards are the main goal.
Nope, don’t need to. The advantages are there, from the much shorter run for the Horde to get to and across the middle of the map. To where the Horde Shammys hide compared to the Alliance Druids sitting in the middle of the map. All Alliance GYs are in a ditch with no where to run. Even when you push the Horde from IBG they spawn at their original spawn location that is a 20 sec run back to IBG. Alliance on the other hand that is losing SHG has to run a lot longer to get back and defend.
Yes, again you are clearly correct, I need to play premades to be able to see these clear advantages. Prob missed out on a hand full as well.
Small Edit: If 40v40 Alliance and Horde teams join AV with the EXACT same skill, setup w/e. Horde will win because they do have strong advantages in Vanill AV. If this is not the case as you claim Blizzard would not have moved your original spawning point like 40sec away from where it is now in the later xpacs.
Ok, so you don’t know what you are talking about.
I know, I have played emulated vanilla since 2015. Playing AV used to be my end game on various private servers, on both factions on different patch version. When you have an AUTHENTIC queue system you can have epic AV games with premade vs premade. And I PROMISTE YOU, the map is WELL balanced. I would even argue that Alliance have the upper hand in general in AV.
The map is authentic and it’s the same map. What have changed in Classic is the QUEUE and REWARD system.
That is true, its better to lose since you get fast ques compared to Horde. But that has nothing to do with the advantages that the Horde has.
Why do you make these claims when you don’t know? I know for a fact based on playing AV premade vs premades for hundreds of hours for month on end, that it’s not the case.
Why do you even talk about the map? EVEN IF IT WAS true, the map is an authentic recreation and could not be changed in the name of balance.
You don’t need to be a professional cook to tell that something does not taste right. Your logic is almost as flawed as your arguments above.
How is the reward system not authentic? Becuase Alliance get honor for killing Galv when Balinda is dead or what? If that’s enough to claim that the reward system isn’t authentic then neither is the map.
Im not calling for changes, im saying Horde has advantages in AV due to the map and other things that I have explained above. I said they will not change it, its vanilla and its ok.
But DUDE listen to me now.
I have played HUNDREDS of premade vs premade AV games during many years. I KNOW based on personal experience that the map is well balanced.
You don’t know anything other than what you see in a broken queue and reward system for pug vs pugs where one faction have 1-2h queue and is more rewarded for slow games.
But you don’t know anything?
I PROMISE you that if you ever get to experience 2 motivated premades fighting in AV you will instantly change your mind.
But on topic, the reason for the EXTREME situation in Classic is the reward and queue system.
You have motivated PvP players that get rewarded for slow games on Horde, and unmotivated PvE players on Allaince (generally) that get rewarded for losing fast (but much less rewarded compared to WSG/AB) due to the reward and queue system. Thats how one side can lose 100% of all pugs. It’s not the same rewards, for the same time and effort. It’s not the same kind of players in the pugs.
In that analogy you are standing outside the restaurant and haven’t even tasted the food. You have been at McDonalds and now have opinions about Michelin quality burgers.
Ok, 16 years of playing the game, multiple pvp tiles and xp that I have clearly would blind me to how AV functions. All the well documented advantages that got changed in the later xpansions was everyone imagining things. Blizzard just had a lot of money that they had to get rid of so they decided to mess with a perfectly balanced AV and make changes.
Will say it once again, Horde has good advantages, but Alliance has short ques and does not care to put in effort. You want to think you are just better because you are Horde and Alliance is bad? Go for it.