But you have never played premade vs premade in Vanilla AV? RIGHT?
I am telling you, the map is an epic fun map that doesn’t favor Horde in any way like you claim. It’s the players, rewards and queue system that is broken, not the map.
In Classic it’s not the same kind of players that play AV on Alliance vs Horde. it’s not the same queue and not the same rewards. It’s so wrong to even talk about the map in this situation.
The queue - A long queue motivets players.
The Rewards - A long game favors the faction with a long queue.
The players - The above broken systems are pusing motivated and good alliance players out of AV and into WSG/AB, so you have two teams with generally very different kind of players.
Why has the exact same reward system, almost the same queue system, and a reversed situation with queue times not produced the mirrored result in actual Vanilla?
Wait dude, are you seriously claiming that a realm specific AV queue is “almost the same queue system” as a region wide mega battle cross realm battlegroup with 300k players?
I am saying that when you have 2 motivated teams fighting in AV the map is well balanced. If you have realm vs realm you can easily make premades or semi premades and fight epic AV battles with motivated players on both sides. Just look on how russian Alliance team gank Horde. (Only way to beat them is to stall long enough for them to loose HpH and they let Horde win because that is more rewarding than a 90min win with this queue and reward system).
It’s funny how you bring up Vanilla retail because Alliance used to win in Vanilla retail. SAME MAP, >>different queue system, different reward situation<<.
So why not fight to change the queue system back to the original and reduce battlegroup sizes? Well it turns out that we know how those end up since we have Oceanic servers which are a much smaller battlegroup. Over there AV doesn’t even pop outside of AV weekends (and I’m not being hyperbolic I’m taking about actually 0 AVs happening the entire day).
And yes Alliance used to win many games back in Vanilla. Yet the mirrored situation with queue times and the exact same reward system never produced this result in pug v. pug situation with Alliance winning 95%+ games. Why is that if the map is supposedly balanced?
Personally I could enjoy 100% win rate and 300k honor farmed in AV this weekend. So I’m not gonna push for that. But please, go ahead and push for that! People pushed for closing the backdoors, that worked. It made no difference what so ever, even made it worse for alliance, but still. They did fix that exploit.
Ok how is that a problem? It was similar on private servers. You don’t have to play AV all the time you know…
Yes and it was the same map but a different queue system and when one side have short queue and the other long queue the reward system breaks making it more rewarding to lose compared to win.
When and where have you seen that? I don’t know what you are taking about here.
Well at least you admit that you enjoy your high win rate and aren’t going to agree to anything that would change that. It is just a bit weird how you have to justify it with all these gymnastics about map supposedly being balanced.
Duuuuude, why the dishonest Straw Man? I literally said the opposite.
I know for a FACT based on personal experience while paying premade vs premade that the map is epic and well balanced.
In CLASSIC the REWARD and QUEUE system are broken. The map is not the main reason. Fix those. EVEN IF THE MAP is the main reason, IF IT IT WAS THAT, you could not change it. You CAN change the queue and reward system.
Sorry for the accusation I misunderstood what you wrote.
You’ll have to excuse me for not taking your word for it. The last AV hero I’ve seen that claimed to have years and years of experience in vanilla PvP turned out to be completely clueless on how basic things like grenades worked.
And I still don’t see why you could change some aspects of the game and not others. Why is the authentic reward system a problem that needs to be changed? Why is the authentic queue system not a good one and had to be changed? But then when it comes to the authentic map that’s suddenly off limits. It makes absolutely no sense.
Ok, lets for the sake of argument say that I agree with you. The map is the reason.
Alliance are losing 100% of all AV because the map is bad.
First we look on exploits. Are there any exploits being abused?
No
Then we look on intended behaviors. Are Horde doing anything that is not intended?
No
Is the map an accurate and authentic recreation of the Vanilla map?
Yes
What now?
Well we have opinions and feelings and we need to adjust the WORLD to fit peoples opinions and feelings. We need to change the WORLD of Warcraft to be 'better".
Is that REALLY what you HONESTLY want in this RECREATION of a game?
This is a straw man. I have never claimed that the map was so imbalanced that Alliance lose all the time. It is however the reason the winrate became what it is.
Also I don’t think you can accuse anyone of not wanting to play the recreation of Vanilla when you yourself have called for changes to the authentic queue system.
Yes, cos reaching rank 1 on your first season and not making it above 2k rating ever since doesn’t make you a wise guy in AV. Smells more like a boost buyer to me.
Edit: Just noticed your tabard, so I might not be correct on my statement. Your FoS seem fishy still
It’s not a Straw Man because I presented my OWN exaggerated argument, for the sake of argument, to see where we stand.
That’s a contradiction. the win rate is 100% right now. Atleast for me. I can show you stats. I am winning literally 100% of all AVs vs Allaince pugs.
But you just said:
So which is it?
Anyway
Why on earth do you call the queue system authentic when it LITERALLY is not authentic. It’s the ONE thing that LITERALLY is not authentic in ANY WAY what so ever in AV.
It’s really not a difficult concept. Getting kicked in the teath by the fact the map is imballanced time and time again is a demoralising effect which has compounded the issue to the point where it is today. I don’t see how that’s a contradiction.
And it’s not authentic because it was changed to not be authentic anymore. Because you (among others) wanted it to change. Or are you talking about battlegroup sizes again?
Ok, lets for the sake of argument say that I agree with you. The map is the reason to whatever extent for whatever anything. (I am not claiming this is your argument).
Alliance are losing 100% of all AV because the map is bad. Or whatever. The map is bad, unbalanced, call it what you want. This leads to some result. For me personally 100% loss for Alliance.
First we look on exploits. Are there any exploits being abused?
No
Then we look on intended behaviors. Are Horde doing anything that is not intended?
No
Is the map an accurate and authentic recreation of the Vanilla map?
Yes
What now?
Well we have opinions and feelings and we need to adjust the WORLD to fit peoples opinions and feelings. We need to change the WORLD of Warcraft to be 'better".
Is that REALLY what you HONESTLY want in this RECREATION of a game?
It was hotfixed 3 times because it was exploited in an unintended way that literally broke the EULA and gave some players an unfair advantage over players noticing such methods.
The queue system wasn’t authentic before that anyway. Vanilla retail never had one huge massive battlegroup in any patch.
Why is the authentic queue system not ok and has to be changed? Even though premading happened regularly in Vanilla and it was never changed to make it impossible. Why is the authentic reward system not okay and has to be changed? But somehow the map is completely off limits.
First of all the modern developers have precisely 0 idea what is and what isn’t intended in vanilla WoW. Secondly if they do know and having no control over who you end up with in a match is the intended way then why did they allow 5 man queues which were never in vanilla? Thirdly premades happened all the time in vanilla. Yet the queue system remained what it was and was never changed. Why is that so if this is supposedly an exploit and against the rules? It just appears like some modern Classic players didn’t like what the recreation of the vanilla queue system allowed and wanted it to change and were loud enough to get it done. “You think you do, but you don’t.”
And ti adress the last bit: justifying a change with another change is something you keep saying is invalid logic. Why are you using it as an argument?
It was being exploited in a way that was not intended and broke the EULA when it gave some players an advantage over player not using such methods.
Dude, you are comparing a realm vs realm queue where basically all AVs are premade with a 300k population massive battlegroup queue that was being specifically exploited to gain an unfair advantage literally breaking the EULA.
Sigh… Because it’s being EXPLOITED in an unintended way. I doesn’t “HAS TO BE” anything, but it would in fact solve the problem in AV and would be REASONABLE to tweak when it’s being exploited in an unintended way.
YES because it’s not being exploited or using in any unintended way.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
If the map was being exploited it would be ok to hotfix that exploit. But it’s not being exploited or used in any united way so you can’t change it in a RECREATION of a game.
Stop justifying changes with other changes. Premading happened in vanilla. The queue system was never changed to make it impossible. How can you then say that something unintended was going on? Just because the modern Blizzard Activision which has little to do with the Blizzard that actually made vanilla other than the name thinks so it proves very little. Same with the reward system. AFKing to get rewards in BGs happened since BG rewards were introduced and is going to happen as long as you get anything out of a BG. It’s against the rules but again there were changes that prevent players from sanctioning AFKing and Blizzard only punishes the very worst offenders with a slap on the wrist. It is 100% authentic (other than Galv giving rewards once Balinda is dead).