And this is why horde wins . We dont care if it takes abit . Determined to win after having to wait may as well win it.
Also I remember reading it somewhere or maybe I recall wrong but didn’t alliance win alot of AVS back in vanilla ? Which would strongly suggest that the map is not the issue.
That’s not suggesting anything.
Let’s do a thought exercise;
Imagine a battle in real life. Let’s say two forces oppose each other on a battlefield.
Give one force an advantage that is not immediately obvious to be used as such.
Now you make them fight the exact same battlefield from the exact same starting positions. Make them fight a hundred battles for example.
You will see that in the first fights the fighting is fairly even, resulting in a balanced outcome.
When the force that has been given an advantage starts understanding the advantage that they have, be it whatever, and then use it to their advantage you will see that by the end of those 100 battles the advantageous team will win every battle they fight.
This represents the lifespan of our dear Alterac Valley. There are a lot more variables like team composition in AV that makes realising your advantages a much slower process than in the thought experiment exampled above.
Now we are at a point in Classic that when you have fairly balanced teams for AV, the results are of absolute imbalance.
And this indeed suggests the contrary to your suggestion - that it is indeed the MAP that is the culprit.
Not the players.
The AV queue changes was made to combat a specific game-breaking exploit. It’s reasonable to fix game-breaking exploits with minor tweaks.
And Vanilla did have cross realm battlegrounds. I think it was added in patch 1.11 and Classic is using 1.12.1, Classic is using only one big battlegroup though. I’m not saying I like it or that it’s good, but it was part of vanilla, even if it was a really small part.
Comeplete BS and nonsese.
Horde base is easier to defend. A handful of horde can stop you from engagind drek tar at all thanks to superior placement of Warmasters compared to Marshals, as well as GY flag position and recall spot.
Any person trying to deny AV map imbalance is plainly stupid. Maths and statistics are the extra proof in case needed.
Here comes the hard hard truth . Alliance suck lemons in av . There I said it.
Yes, but only in AV. In WSG/AB it’s closer. But then Horde queues up for AV and through the magical power of waiting turns it to a 95% winning chance, just be the sheer mindset and focus that comes from waiting.
as someone who has solo ranked long ago and rather went vs premades in ab/ws for more honor output and less insanity I can say, that those over 250 AV games I have played were never enjoyable unless it was AV weekend. Why do you lose? Because alliance is botting / afking every damn game and all they look for is getting leeched kills where ever they can… while the rep farmers keep dragging the game into a turtle for their rep items. Alliance is a joke and sure the map is an issue but in all honesty the faction and mentality is a way greater issue to this problem. Dont que this nonsense.
The mentality arises from the problems with the map. This is why you won’t see same behaviour in WSG and AB.
Let me elaborate a bit more on this point.
What you are basically suggesting is that after you beat an armless old man to the hospital, you’re blaming him for not being able to fight efficiently even though all the bones in his body are broken and not his handicaps in the first place.
Can you see just how little sense you are making?
STOP THIS NONSENSE LINE OF THINKING.
Ask to the alliance russians ,how they win with the same map.
Is not the map,just the players.
Even if Blizzard will “fix” the map and place your spawn point in the nose of drek,you will still getting rekt.
There is no coordination with healers,casters and melees in the alliance side. I see healers still standing trying to cast long heals(gl with it),positioned in between the casters lines and meele (healers should be at the back,maybe paladins can risk more due the bubble), just in range for our casters and hunters, ready to be oneshot/silenced/sheeped/feared by courtesy of our casters and hunters(i m quite bored to oneshoot priests/healadins with my shadowbolt),the melee just charging mindlessly away from their healers,and casters and hunters just being blasted away.
I tend to chuckle when a lonely gnome/human mage just jump in front of 20 hordes “trying” to aoe,they usually get a nice timed silence before getting ripped/teared apart,first learn to aoe properly you need at least 4-5 mages at same time(in order to create chaos in the healers,casters lines),not one by one, and get some backup from healers and melee also,a proper charge.Anyway…long short history l2p issues here.
Not a single cc from alliance…and they just try to fight when their numbers are 5:1 in even numbers they just fail miserably.
Rogues,special mention to alliance rogues,they are non-existant in battle,when they are in fact the best weapon in AV. They can create disruption in graveyards and towers,they can literally destroy an offensive by denying ressers and win tempo for alliance offensive,they can literally win a graveyard in the right moment(worst moment for the Horde). They can disrupt reinforcements picking away healers or sapping people…i dont see that often, a good rogue can create havoc on the backlines,and a backline is not only in the front.
This is Alliance EU pugs coordination effort in AV , and this is not what they used to be when they were doing premades(using discord,do you remember those glorious starting av days with Apes streaming those premades? ).
You abused the system to get premades. Now you get pugs,get over it and adapt.
So zug zug.
Fix maybe this first issue as alliance,and maybe we can start to talk about those map “issues”.
Remember the raid chat works ,use it for calls.We do that in horde side.
Protip: “Let them win” is not an attack order.
So do you have some kind of stats here or are you just pulling things from thin air?
Yeah from the thin air…,if you have any doubts about it,ask your russian comrades.
They win often against Horde EU. So must be there something,that they are doing better than you.
I gonna give you a hint: Snowfall graveyard.
You however,can keep doing that trainfail to Iceblood instead.Is like hunting ducks.
Ok, from thin air. So on one side we have many players, I’m one of those, who reports a winrate of 5%. I went from neutral->revered and won 3 times out of 60 games.
On the other side we have you who have heard from some russian buddies that they win in AV. You want use this as some kind of basis for your reasoning. Hint: It’s not enough.
First of all,you report a winrate of 5%,in your "numbers"those inside your head
I mean your sample,that´s it.I m afraid your sample is your very gametime ,which rank are you Grand Marshall?,how much time at day you play into AV,did you been there in the release of AV classic?..or you are just for the rep? “from neutral to revered”…
I mean,size matters and sample size for stats matters…also you wont in your stats result a biased result…“and belive me you are not into stats to show us really good numbers without a bias”.
Now without being quite strict…i m playing this damn game since 2003,overly like nearly 3k games on AV, more than 1.000.000 legit kills. And yes is not a faulty map,is your faulty mentallity in order to try to win in 7 mins,that is not possible anymore and you must defend and stand your ground.
AV is about controlling the map,and you are giving up in the very moment you all mount up and like headless chickens try to “run” through the horde ,that doesnt gonna work anymore.
And that´s exactly the opposite than your russians comrades does,they still stand…dont lose people mindlessly(the ressers need 30 seconds to ress,less people to fight).They attack snowfall instead and they does a pincer manouver using snowfall graveyard and Stonehearh gy…and then they push to IB as a block,they win the middle they win the AV.
Now come again with “your” 5% and why you are failing so hard.
If you put 40+40 random players against eachother on a balanced map then the outcome would be around half wins, half losses. So we put it in the calculator using a binomial distribution: 3 wins in 60 trials with an expected p of 0.5.
Result? The chance to get 3<= is less than 0.000001. Conclusion? The map isn’t balanced.
And this isn’t only about me either. In this thread there are several players who report similar winrate. Go look at the american forum and you’ll see the same there. It is impossible that the map is balanced.
You can try it yourself. Start flipping a coin in series of 100. Come back here when you have one series where you have 5 tails and 95 heads. HInt: You’re never coming back.
Because ,lovely dear, life is not that random,if you dont use the proper tactics and strategy you will always fail,if you place 40 allies doing the Conga dance trying to reach IB meanwhile they are being hunted down mounted, which conclusion you gonna get from 100 games?, you are being really picky getting the map as conclusion.
p in this case is not 0.5 is not even close to 0.000001 that means q is roughly 1 ,and of course not due the map balance,but the total retardness of such tactics and strategy…never go full retard.
…game theory.
Ally doesn’t want to win. That’s it, winning means we have to fight the horde, who are trying to turtle. The battles will take too long for ppl. That gives too little honor per hour. Now the horde has a long que time and really really want to win by dragging out the fight.
So you see, ppl wanting honor go to other bg’s. That leaves the ally with semi afk’ers. Ppl who only want some kills for stuff to deliver for rep. And in general, bad pvpers.
The map is slightly in the favor of the horde, but it shouldn’t be game breaking.
Back in the day we mopped the floor with the horde in AV. I’ve hear by ppl playing on private servers that it was about 60/40% in the win rate in favor to the ally as well.
Really, the map isn’t bad, the ally players playing AV is the problem.
Look at it, every AV I join, the ally is trying to rush while refusing to stop and fight. Our teams always get split cause half our team is always stopped. Those being stopped don’t even try to dismount.
Now stop blaming the map… It’s CLEARLY about the players.
Just like the other bonehead in here your complete lack of a mathematical basis makes you unable to process larger numbers. You get involved in all these complex procedures that you can’t put your word on but in the end its just lack of experience. Your use of q also tells me you have no idea what a binomial distribution is.
Youre saying Av is like rock, paper, scissors and Horde currently use scissors and Alliance just need to find what strategy is rock. But there is no rock! This is the final iteration after years of perfecting a strategy and that strategy leads to winning in almost all cases BECAUSE THE MAP IS FAVOURING THE HORDE.
That is why the queues are increasing by the day since premades were banished. There is no effective counter to the Horde scorched earth because IB GY and that cave. Any win is just variance where enough geared players happened to end up in the same bg.
But Alliance just need to go to SH, wipe Horde once. Split the raid in half. Go SF. Pray there is no def. Attack IB with the combined forces of SH and SF. Manage to hold IB against a constant rain of spawning horde. Just have 40 randoms do that!
If the battleground layout is putting much harsher requirements on one side to win than the other the map is imbalanced. The map is imbalanced. Get it through your thick skull.
q = 1 - p (where p is probability of success).So q is probability of failure.
Your assumption about p = 0.5 is just false.Your attempt to simulate something so complex like human behaviour in Alterac Valley with a simple binomial distribution ,makes me chuckle. Is like comparing tossing a coin (n times,just in case) result versus 80 people behaving with multiple factors and the result of that,really?,good luck with your “maths”.
And you are the guy into big numbers…if that is true you should be fired whatever you are doing which such big numbers.
Your asumption about failing is about the map design,makes me wonder,could be as i said due the fail logic to mount up and “let them win” mentallity.
Trying to justify by maths a bunch of lies,doesnt make you smarter.
Now genious…do you know the basics about game theory?.
Also i never said AV is rock-paper-scissors,again doing false asumptions,AV is about controlling the middle ,you get the middle you win AV or at least you have better chances.If you throw the middle to the trash can you already lost game.And there is plenty of strats to win the middle,not only Rock-Paper-Scissors…,use the rogues more!!.Split on a few decoy teams,push as block,pincer the enemy…go figure.You guys are so wasted with that mindless “mount up to IB,carebear race” that i m afraid is not possible to recover a good av fight.
Horde is doing exactly what we have to do to win the middle,you guys you are so salty because you cant win anymore in 10 mins,and preffer not take battle.IF you dont fight properly you cant win AV.That´s all.
Well you can at least do some pve in AV,such glorious bg permit both gamestyles pve and pvp.
Grats on your shallow Google knowledge. You don’t need multiple factors because you can average it out to one dominant factor : wanting to win. But let’s not pretend you’re not completely clueless about the subject and that I’m not arguing with someone who struggles with reading and writing comprehension.
Yeah sure,keep clueless my friend.
I dont gonna argue with someone that use probability distributions,totally clueless just “prove” himself that is not lieing.
You just are mixing apples with onions.
Is more,your starting assumption is totally false,you are cherrypicking the conclusion,you are in fact a fraud.
PD: I dont need google for something that already know.
Also that factor ,tell me at least you are using somekind of multivariate model for average it out all those factors in the DOMINANT ONE “wanting to win”…must be quite stronk factor,in the alliance faction LOL.