Before I started doing any PvP I decided that I’d ONLY do AV since I need the reputation for the ring. I’d heard that it was bad for Alliance so I decided that I’d keep a tally of my games.
Played 105 matches in AV over the last 3 weeks.
I’ve won 3, and lost 102.
(Edit: I’m now up to 114 losses! I thought that maybe with the prospect of more seasoned PvPers on the alliance side for the AV weekend that we would stand more of a chance of winning, alas…I was wrong.)
I’d like to think that I have enough of an idea to at least be in with a chance of an occasional win (more than my current < 3%)
I spent enough time in there over the years to understand how the match should flow but this is getting to be seriously disheartening now, even on an AV weekend the chance of a win is next to nil. I’m not a defeatist by any means, I’ll keep trying until the final scoreboard pops up, but this is getting ridiculous now.
The problem with allys in av is that they are always doing the same thing the Horde adapted to a different strategy and Allys wanna do the same thing and expect different results i got both Horde and Ally char and its ridiculous on the Ally side
So? Do you have an idea on how ally can push thru without coordination 40 strangers?
You have faster reinforcements to cap SHGY than we do defending it.
You have multiple exits from IBGY to surround us.
We need to push thru an easy defendable gy with 20man vs 30, because if we leave SH undefended? it gets capped, and we spawn at SP. Which is longer from SH than IB is. On top of that? You get a hill where you can safely range us down, without us being able to stop it.
So we push IB. You tag SH. You have spawn right next to IB, giving you constant reinfocements. Our reinforcements have no way getting to IB because of the hill position at SH.
Ally need coordination played to perfection to have a chance of winning. Whiile horde can just wing it.
Get all 40 to fight from the very beginning. Don’t try to “sneakily run past”. Your graveyard is closer so as long as you hold your ground then you’ll get reinforcements faster to that first clash. PvP is what determines the BG.
I have read every single post in this thread and i think most of them completely missed the point.
The point is that we are LONG past bickering over WHY the Alliance experience is so unspeakably loathsome in AV or if Horde racials are better or any of that…that is long past. None of that matters anymore.
You know why? Because Blizzard has allowed these issues to exist long enough to create their own narrative and common ground in player mentality. And that common ground is:
Alliance sucks in PvP
You have to play Horde to be a cool person
You will always be a miserable loser if you play Alliance
Come TBC, the Alliance will cease to exist as a faction anyway
None of these points are completely true. Some not even partially…and what most Horde players chose to ignore COMPLETELY is that you do not have to be born special or in some way “deserve” to be Horde…you can just put on your sexy red underwear and be all set for easy street.
BUT i dare to say that this still very accurately describes the fundamental mentality most players would accept as “the way things are”.
No individual player can change anything about it. Blizzard neither wants to nor is competent enough to change anything about it. Who COULD change it would be the majority of players, AKA the HORDE players. They would need to reroll Alliance en masse to make a change.
Sylvanas becoming the next POTUS is MUCH more likely to happen than that.
Take solace in knowing that the situation will get FAR worse in TBC. Nothing will change for the better. Blizzard COULD have done something about it if they had reacted to 99% Horde winrate within 2 weeks of their initial change to AV. Which they did not. Some opportunities just never come back.
Except PvPers have never been the majority of the players in any version of WoW. Arenas have always been played by the minority. So to assume it’ll “make the Alliance faction cease to exist” in burning crusade is just feeding your martyr complex.
Kinda difficult to change player perception issues. But yes, the least they could’ve done is fix all of the backdoors at the same time as they (for the most part) fixed the premades.
The rest is just a widespread mindset problem and lack of confidence. Which, of course, you’ll disagree with, since it doesn’t follow your martyr complex narrative.
Another alternative solution, which honestly would’ve been better than all this whining, is to just allow full 40-man premades to queue for AV. As an option for everyone.
Realm wars would’ve been more fun than this.
Whenever that was suggested before the premade exploits were (mostly) taken care of, Alliance smartasses just kept saying “nuh-uh, we’ve earned this” along with the sophistry claiming what they were doing weren’t exploits (even though it was so bad it had to get hotfixed TWICE).
There’s really no need for a solo queue for ANY BG in this version of WoW. Refail is already known as the casual-friendly version, where you can “play how you want to play” (according to Ion), so them going there would’ve been just fine if PvP is all they care about.
Honestly quite sad to pick a race just to optimize the character because a racial ability or 2. Thats why we see 90% human or orc warriors which is quite boring tbh. No hard feelings on the min/maxers. But hey I can atlest do flips with my plate armor and stealth charge enemies when the try to get our flag in WSG.
But just due to your attitude of min/maxing characters/races for PvP optimization we see the big difference of queue time between the factions as most PvPers prefer to go Horde in BG’s which this thread is about…
As people have said above you could have rolled alliance (I play alliance specificall for short BG queues). There is another way you can personally help reduce queues though. Every time you go in an AV spam chat telling horde to let alliance past and not turtle.
The way horde plays is awful for alliance. YOu drag games right out unecessarily. Speeding them up does two things. YOur games will end faster which means people can requeue sooner and get into games faster. IT also makes it much less unpleasant for alliance so they are willing to queue up much more. I know many alliance players (including me on one of my chars) refuse to play AV even though we want the rep rewards just because of how hellish it has become.
This AV weekend me and a few others have even been trying out a new tactic of hiding all alliance players right from the start and letting horde run north just to try stop the turtle games they want to create. Has worked amazingly well actually, but you (as a horde player) can’t control what alliance does, so start working on the horde side to speed matches up.
Not going to happen. Nobody wants to “let it end faster” when they sit in queues for 30-90 minutes each time, you know? They’ve got their reason to make it last.
You’re the one who doesn’t want to win enough to turtle every game like a proper team.
Up to them. Not my problem since I don’t play that BG except for AV weekends (and even then I have got strategies to force horde to end it fast). If they want long games, they can accept the long queues that come with it.
The OP does complain about queue times though and it is obviously him that I am replying to. I have pointed out part of the reason for the long queues and offered a way to help deal with the problem.
The biggest reason is the widespread mindset problems though, not the way the horde plays. So even if Horde would play like the Russians, it still wouldn’t have a big impact on queue times.
The only real way to solve it is to remove solo queue. No need for automatic matchmaking for xrealm teammates in this ranking system anyway. Alliance can only win as full premades, because the mindset goes to hell otherwise.
It fixes most problems in PvP, you know? It’s just that the entitled solo casual whiners wants everything handed to them in LFR-level of difficulty.
Let me add again that in Vanilla when things was not so min/max oriented things were more even as PvPers were more evenly spread across both factions. (as people didnt really care to much for racials)
I played Horde back in the days and the queue was almost instant on some occasions to extend to 15 min at most. Alliance would more than frequently kick our butts as we would kick their butt also. AV was 50/50 win ratio most of the time. Those were the days indeed.
Graveyards:
Horde graveyards easy to cap, a rush to IB is much succesfull than a SH rush and it has 1 way for escape which tbh many hordes use it without cheking the warnings, FW is in open sight, SP also much better to be defended due to hills, both Alliance gy have one way out and easy to defend and turtle, Horde base is empty from npc, alliance base is full with dwarfs, a rush to Hut is much easy than a rush to Aids.
Towers:
Alliance bunkers are not so easy to cap, archers will target you from almost any position, Horde towers are easy to cap by just going inside and tap the flag after ccing the lt.
Base:
Alliance base is easy to defend by the bridge and tons of dwarfs inside plus bunker archers targeting everyone, Horde base is a walk in the park avoiding almost any npc, and almost no tower archers targets, Aids much harder to cap than Relief, allies recalls are on the flag, horde recalls are furter away from flag. A rush in Horde base is cake than a rush in Alliance base.
Paths:
Both factions have 3 ways of attack, east, west and middle, horde apparently always use middle path. Both factions have a choke point, Horde at TP, Alliance at IWB. Alliance have a longer run from respawn point in case SH is caped, Horde have longer way from respawn point if FW is caped, as you ressurect in cave.
From what i remember AV at this layout was a nightmare for the Horde 16 years ago, losing almost every one or just turtle games for 5-6 hours.
Horde is more motivated to win due to weak defences, mentality have changed, the spirit of never give up has evolved in years and no allies will pass middle from now on. Horde is a one mind togheter in AV, focused on the win path.