I totally see where you are coming from with the idea of wanting frost to be more death knight themed and more undead. I guess for me I’ve never really heavily associated it with all the undead stuff that unholy has since I only started playing in shadowlands and for me frost was like all about dragons and stuff which I thought felt super cool ! maybe if I played through wrath and so on I might have a different perspective on it but for me personally I’d still rather keep frost as this cool dragon theme spec because it’s much more cute imo.
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thats a fair opinion, but that’s were i also added in that it’s a talent option so your not forced to take it, that being said i do think dk in general should have undeads themed around your spec i know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but we are DEATH first and foremost then KNIGHT second.
some of us here has played since vanilla wrath, and knows what has been lost over the years, with wrath classic many did see what Dk was, it had flaws sure, but was a thing to master.
im glad for your positiveness though, welcome to the DK gang, dont let the old veterans make you to many despresso espressos
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your comments make me smile ! I really appreciate everyone sharing and interest in this post thanks everyone <3
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There might be loads of issues around DK as a class and all it’s specs, it’s still really fun being in a raid or dungeon, and seeing all your party squirming around you trying to avoid a mechanic and you’re like “yeeeeeeaaaaah I’m just going to AMS this, ignore it, and continue dps”!
I like a bunch of the stuff you write here but the one that really encapsulates the biggest issue (likely I’d imagine why you put it on first) is this:
Like you say, it should be one or the other, period. Is breath the baseline? Great, now let’s make 2 or 3 distinctive builds that change how breath works… Maybe one capstone talents makes it becomes a lot more powerful, much more expensive, but has shorter cooldown (much better for keys)… Another makes it more single target focused but focusing more of its damage on one target and making it consume resources slower whilst there is only 1 target up… Anyhow you get the point, don’t mean these have to be the capstone talents, just that they need to modify the play of breath. All of that applies to an obliteration focused build too. It will make the spec more coherent and will likely allow them to come up with more interesting tier sets.
Another point I’d like too add regards the damage profiles of both frost and unholy. Right this now both specs are burst specs… Both specs hit like an utter wet noodle outside of their CD windows… Why have the same play style in blue and green? I know I’m overgeneralizing in terms of how similar they are, but that’s a big common denominator. Surely they could make it so the two classes have fundamentally different damage profile output? One could be bursty whilst the other is more consistent, then build the class design around that.
I’ll have 7 please.
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I 10000% agree with this I would love for them to make breath baseline and to have each side focused on like juicing up remorseless winter and giving us more dragon effects (maybe like the s2 tier set) and then one the other side of the tree giving us cool obliteration st options (maybe like the s1 tier set) or just anything that could make breath feel more cool in raid. While it is cool in a way having two distinct builds in one spec and I know there are lots of people who still really enjoy obliterate. I still think breath is probably one of the coolest and most unique playstyles in the game right now and no other class really comes close to it for me so I do hope blizzard decides to choose breath IF they even do decide to focus on just one !
Yeah but is not making any difference these topics.Lot of people want some rework and utilities for make useful both dk and frost dk spec but still no response from developers.Even best frost dk players complaning about spec while they can do higher keys like you.
Here are same sample
Just found these from on first page on last month i guess 
You can imagine full forum and firm still not answered.Just giving some damage buff whiel they already have good damage it is very interesting but hope they will do rework or something
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as i mentioned earlier, im an obliteration kinda guy, i did not enjoy the patches when Breath was top dog focus, but some patches when frost was all about breath also had enjoyable Unholy and blood gameplay, some patches in legion was an example, i have never enjoyed the post legion unholy designs, to me legion had the perfect balance of abilities to press and mechanics to juggle, especially with the right legendaries, it also had a much much greater focusin disease and shadow damage, and not forced pet bullcrap that it has been nowadays.
Unholy is, to me, a more annoying spec to play than both affli warlock and Demo warlock, and Bm hunter, unholy needs 4 abilites while demo warlock and BM hunter presses one button for same effect, unholy really only gets ahead in insane m+ pulls where epidemic aoe scaling kicks in over a certain mob number. i dont know how good affli warlockis right now, but seeing demo warlocks, and getting dented by them in PvP makes me mad, why cant unholy be this intuitive? maybe Demo warlock needs to use it’s soul shards to apply “demonic wound” on the enemy as a debuff, that they then need to pop with a demonbolt to summon a felhunter/felguard…naaah… they just cast said demonbolt and a minion spawns in without any windup rising from the earth lagging, it just charges and instantly begins bladestorming, and thats just ONE ABILITY they have that is that easy.
sorry to ramble, this is about frost Dk primarily i know
It’s a joke isn’t it? I was saying that exact something similar to someone else on this forum, you actually went ahead and linked all them quotes! Just Ctrl+F on dk forum page with the word Frost and boom… I would love find out exactly why DKs are so neglected…
Look at the most recent buffs, Paladins got a lot of very specific and well placed buffs, we just get a general 4% aura buff… Seriously? We all joke that nobody plays dk over at blizzard, but now I’m genuinely wondering, is seriously no one playing dk over at blizzard?
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my respect for paladin players have lowered even further now after i argued with those two bozos earlier this month, unbelievable.
even before this latest patch buff i said, WORD FOR WORD that all we will get is aura changes, and more nerfs. was i wrong? NO
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I’m sure that all players want to complain about their classes but I’m seriously questioning their understanding of just how neglected this class is.
I’m playing a bunch of melee classes now and everything I’ve touched so far feels smoother, and logical… Sure maybe I don’t have the same understanding as DK since I’ve played that for years, but ultimately I see systems that make sense.
I feel like some players are like those spoiled children that cry because they didn’t get the latest iPhone for their bday but received the model bellow it, and we’re here sitting, using and sharing the old public payphone on the corner of our street.
I think only shadow priests feel as bad as us, but even they are different, they get reworks every expansion as us, it just always seems to be problematic one way or another. Maybe survival hunters too, but seeing how small the player base is around that spec I don’t bother following it.
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i’ve been enjoying rogue lately, it’s insane how thought after the skilltree, passives, and mechanics are designed.
meanwhile Unholy DK is a literal snakenest of mechanics and buttons, and frost is so simple yet clunky that 6+ years after legion it has only gotten worse.
and blood is still not where it needs to be in my book, ever since legion
Yeah I’m on rogue too atm, and I was surprised by the talent tree too… Was on the wowhead class guide and there’s actually multiple useful class builds, when we’re stuck with one main tree where we swap one or two talents based on the context!
Enh Shaman is pretty fun too, though after playing UH for so long I’m struggling with the short cycles of abilities and constantly reacting to a million UI and WA elements…
I feel like UH has almost made a worst player… We just got to cycle our CDs on pull, 45s, 90s, 3min and basically afk in between doing the most basic resource management whilst going through 3 abilities…
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i just love it when other class players start to cry about dk for the slightest thing we do,
remember that time our zone got nerfed because they didn’t like bringing 1 more dk to the raid,
or how about that time they argued dk didn’t need to bring raid buffs because we bring DeAtH GrIp great reality dont you think.
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a very concise and well written post that must have taken a lot of thought and time to write so thankyou very much .what really annoys me is the fact that Blizzard cant even be bothered acknowledging your post ,I find this totally ignorant.
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The only thing players can do is vote with their wallet.
I completely agree with a lot of this, nicely written.
I feel like there clearly needs to be made a distinction or choice between Oblit(2h) and Breath(DW). The spec tree seems to be trying to cater to too many people at the same time and just ends up flat.
I’ve never really enjoyed when breath was a maintenance buff, now is just the same. Always preferred the more bursty type of breath, 30-60 seconds is enough. I particularly like the idea of breath costing less rp, but only if its going to be a maintenance buff rather than a burst window. Having a shorter windows allows you to play and plan around mechanic windows and doesn’t end up as punishing when stuff does happen to you.
As for DND, I beg, please, stop making me stand in a circle on the ground for AoE.
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This is the main reason why I don’t even play DPS DK. I like the concept but I can’t really be bothered with the gameplay when tanks just don’t stand still.
This was a nice read, I don’t think I’ve used breath since WoD lol
Honestly I think the main issue with all of frost DK is our reliance on cooldowns, my obliterates in pillar hit like 200k but outside of it they hit 20k? That’s ridiculous.
My main issues with frost are:
- married to pillar, outside of it you’re useless, I would prefer more reliable less explosive burst
- killing machine being based on crit chance when it’s entire mechanic negates crit chance
- The talent trees offer 0 customisation
I also have some crazy ideas about a frost rework, but I think a great starting place is changing killing machine:
Instead of killing machine making your next obliterate a critical hit just make it deal 200% damage and as “froststrike” (half frost half physical the way rets have holystrike). Then buff the sh*t out of obliterate damage, this way it still feels like killing machine smacks but it also means you’re not hitting people with a pool noodle normally. That slow obliterate animation for 20k damage makes me want to scream.
From that point I would instead attach obliteration to remorseless winter (as it won’t be so strong, plus without pillar it’s much weaker)
And give rime, frost strike, glacial advance a high chance to proc it.
And reduce the cooldown on D&D for frost and UH, there’s no reason you shouldn’t just have it up for every pack.
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