It’s all cheap nowadays, many people (in those server first guilds) have cleared vanilla raids gazillion times and can rush through it eyes closed.
What you should do is ignore what trained players do and focus your own guilds performance… because no raid in classic is gonna be monumental task to clear for those top p-server veterans.
How does knowing that some people who spent more time in a day preparing for a raid than you’d normally play throughout a week and clearing the content super fast, cheapen the raid for you?
The guilds went cleared BWL in a day went as optimised as they possibly could. When BWL first released over a decade ago, not a single person was anywhere near as optimised as everybody in the 40man teams were.
This isn’t new content that people have to learn. Everybody knows the fights, everybody knows the damage and healer numbers, everybody knows the debuffs. Every raid released in Classic will be cleared super fast. You also have to consider that BWL is actually a short raid instance; there isn’t huge corridors between bosses, like AQ and Molten Core. AQ and Naxx wont be cleared in under an hour, but they won’t last more than 2 hours each, either.
Some guilds just lose members and there is a mechanic where if a guild has to few members to have a full raid. within a week or less, some players will leave to be able to raid.
Many guilds are recruiting, guilds that if they had a 40 man roster could easily clear BWL or a part of it. But not all guilds that are recruiting will find enough suitable replacements from a dwindling supply.
Some guilds disbanding, like a whale carcass in the sea, giving new live to many others.
On a side-note, I noticed a structural recruiting by guilds who use loot-council but are build of mostly random people. Is this something you also observe?
I think that loot-council works best for guilds with some history/connections. For “pug” guilds it seems like the utmost drama source.
Relax. It was cleared 15 years ago.
What’s this guy been smoking?
That’s going to be the case with all old content. The same will apply to everything up until M’uru, maybe. Actually M’uru would probably be post-nerf so it would fall over as well.
No boss is going to stop a tryhard guild from clearing the instance in one sitting for the next 3-4 expansions.
When your guild has 5 ppl coming back for new raid, no wonder you disband.
Yes, Im aware of all things you mentioned.
Still, it does not make me feel any better.
From 45+ signups pre-bwl, my guild gets only about 10-15 since bwl released. Maybe others feel like I do, cant say…
A lot of guilds are struggling to get players. The reason for that is because Classic launched with a playerbase with numbers far beyond what Vanilla was built to sustain. My server had over 200 guilds clearing molten core, as opposed to the like 20 something that Vanilla would have had.
Players get bored and move on with their lives. Seldom do people look at fast clears and think “lol this 2 easy im not even gonna bother”.
Well from experience I’ve known a lot of guilds on my server having issues getting a raid roster and clearing. Some have ended up merging (my own took in a smaller guild), and some have disbanded all together.
Today we cleared BWL for the first time with our new improved roster. We were actually aiming for a week or two’s time of casual progression and were very surprised that it only took us 1-2 pulls on each boss. We had around 25-30 sign ups during content drought of MC, and now with BWL we have around 45 signs.
I think a lot of it comes down to management. Running a guild which has both a good atmosphere as well as an engaging raiding environment is important, and will keep people coming back. If the leader and management loses steam, so will the people under that management.
People burn out and that’s normal, but if you don’t have the drive to keep the guild running and recruiting then it’s inevitable it will fall apart.
Another “not struggling because BWL is hard, but because we can’t get a full raid team”-guild here. /wave
We started leaking raiders (badly) already during the holidays and after clearing 3/8 in BWL during the first week with only 32 people, we simply couldn’t get enough signups to give it a proper shot during the second week despite our recruitment officers working their behinds off, which of course left to even more people leaving.
Now the domino-effect is in full swing, and I’m expecting either a disband or a merge within the coming week.
It’s the perfect storm right now basically;
All in all, a lot of guilds are seemingly having troubles filling their rosters right now, and players are ping-pong:ing left and right because they know they’ll get recruited.
Our guild officers sorted out a merge and it worked out well for us so far, though I get that isn’t ideal. Guild break up is worse though.
I have no idea how asking for what the thread is considered as rude.
Besides this i never refused to be part of the problem in some cases.
On the other hand i doubt there would’ve been such useless threads in vanilla.
I mean really? Who cares about guilds who disband after some wipes at bosses in a 15 year old “new” raid? Except people who are directly affected pretty sure none. Opening a thread for it to “discuss” is a thing i don’t understand.
I blame them to make decisions right now which destroys several communities.
Yes, premading wasn’t a thing in vanilla and i have enough of it to be discussed too.
But it created communities, the possibility to create premades were given by blizzard & the players who have chosen the pvp favored faction because of whatever reason.
The fix was not really necessary except the part of creating 200 new games and only 3-5 are filled with 40 players and the rest gets graveyard camped because they are outnumbered and have the additional AFKers and Bots in their games. (Which were a bigger problem than the Premades but what did blizzard do to these before last reset?)
People want the mir wins handed to them. Once it gets a little bit harder, bwl is not as big of a pushover as sole people make it to be, people abandon their guilds because they say their guild is bad. Maybe, just maybe they should work a bit harder and progress through the content step ny step. This is the true vanilla raiding experience.
the thing is in the good ol times there were a few guilds who could clear bwl aq40 etc etc and it was super hard to get into them people were trying to progress with their guilds. I was 1 of the class leaders of 1 of the “elite” guilds and there wasnt a day that i didnt get a whisper if we are recruiting rogues etc etc but in the end i was recruiting 1 rogue maybe in 1 year.
nowadays so many guilds are successful with clearing the content that people dont have the patience to stick with their guild, they just transfer to some random one without understanding that vanilla is about community and you will get bored if your sole motivation is clearing everything, right here right now.
My humble suggestion, please stick to your guild if the leaders are honest people that do their best and form a community, i guarantee you will enjoy progressing together much more then “45 mins bwl” clears.
I completely agree…
Im in a casual guild, not even considered semi-hardcore, and we cleared bwl 8/8 today in 2 hours and one shotted every boss without any wipes. So its really not hard, imo its too easy. And that said from a casual view…
@Eprom: If you cant even clear bwl then you play just bad sorry… it sounded like you wanted to say that guilds disband cause bwl is too hard. Man you can be glad that you dont have the real vanilla bwl difficulty… every raid is way easier on this patch if you dont know that…
Bwl is definitely harder than MC but at second raid week it already felt like a faceroll again
Yall said “#NOCHANGES”
And got it.
No one in their right mind actually believe they can re-release a 15+ year old game and having everything as they were in 2005.
“Premading wasn`t a thing in vanilla” - But that was in 2005 friend, now it is 2020 and most people who play Classic are people who played in Vanilla.
Thats why it is a thing now, and if you slavic wanna follow the so-called “#NoChanges” you have to remember premades were not illegal in Vanilla.
Meaning people know all the tricks in the book, what to do to achieve and get x and x in the most effective ways.
Thats why premades, among other stuff, is more a thing now then it was 15 years ago.
You blame blizzard for community being different. You honestly expect human beings not to develope and change their mentality in 15 years?
Vanilla is gone, those days are never coming back.
I remember Vanilla for what it was with its advantages and even more disadvantages, rather then to try to relive the past.
Its like having a school reunion, all the same guys and girls back in the same school and classrom with the same teacher, and expecting it to be exact what it was 20+ years ago.
Mentioned many times in this thread, one of the raid challenges in classic is just to get 40 people to do it. I think someone summerized in a YouTube video saying the challenge in classic isn’t the raid, but the preperation for it.
BWL did prove more challenging that some anticipated, and much of it comes down to the raid leaders ability to lead. The mechanics isn’t all that challenging by themselves, however if there’s a slip up from someone, there’s a possibility that the raid will wipe (Tranq shot missing, taunt resisted etc).
Then there’s the class distribution right now, a lot of players chose the “simple” classes with often 1 or 2 roles. Shaman and druids are quite rare on my server atm if you compare it to the massive amount of warrs/mages/rogues.
Modern “path of least resistence” mentality: minimal effort, maximum reward will make people disregard classic when it gets harder. Not because the mechanics is harder, but the other things are.
@Dhunder: Indeed. The limited public data suggests that your realm has even fewer horde druids than most others and relatively speaking absurd amount of specifically undead mages. Warriors come second and even rogues only a distant third in comparison to mages.