I Am Undead And I Need Help

If you’ve picked up the race or class that covers their armour in skulls and is regularly presented as villains in the story because you wanna be a valiant hero who is universally adored then I have some bad news.

Being outcasts, villains or mistrusted heroes is literally the point of RPing undead characters. And if being those things doesn’t appeal, then simply play one of the billion other things in this game.

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Your tone seems very pointed right now.

Tell me you’re a San’layn in Orgrimmar without telling me you’re a San’layn in Orgrimmar.

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Oh they do so all the time.

I’ll be honest, I’m just feeling a little confused about your tone and point? You seem to be taking this alot more personal and direct as if I was calling you the person OOC evil rather than saying undead and similar nature is generally considered and viewed as bad.

Like I said aswell, I think it’s part of the appeal and character. If you’re playing an undead, that comes with the baggage of that most characters and places will shun you, even if your character is more “nicer” than others.

What is the point of playing one if you take away what is essentially a core part of their identity in the world and lore?

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What are you trying to prove here exactly? That if we RP characters that dislike undead, we’re bad? That we hurt undead RPers by RPing the characters in a way that makes sense to us and is consistent with the lore? That we should start accepting poor DKs into our guilds?

Seriously, what is the end goal here?

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Like I said above, I’m getting the vibe that they see it as an OOC argument/attack on them as an individual rather than arguing for in-character opinions and views? I’m not really sure why. I got nothing against them as a person.

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I’m a bored San’layn at work who accidentally started a pointless argument that escalated into philosophical debates about defining good and evil and pondering the fundamental basics of RP.

Perhaps we’re different, but I personally really like my San’layn as the unapologetically evil semi-vampire monsters they have been portrayed as, and how happy they seem to be with that role.

Again, part of their appeal and identity.

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The truth will set you free.

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My advice to you is to just relax and take a little step back. I think you are still taking this way too personal.

I understand having a different opinion to several others can be stressful, but no one was arguing for anything OOC or against you directly as a person for having a different viewpoint.

Instead from what I can see and also going from myself, it was arguments for In character and in-world viewpoints of how undeads and similar are generally seen. It was nothing against you as an individual. Nor was it a battle of any kind.

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I know, thanks for showing support. :black_heart: It’s just that it’s really discouraging when everybody else keeps getting hearts for what they say, and you are put down like a real villain. God bless there are no Reddit-style dislikes here on this forum, at least

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Dont stress too much about the hearts, it can be very demoralizing to focus on them but they dont mean much.

Also worth noting that ultimately, you do you. If you want to roleplay as a very friendly undead finding their way and wanting acceptance, that is fully your choice. No one can stop you from doing so.

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Excuse my tone if I misinterpreted your comment. I personally went in with a stretched leg and I do not want anyone to feel the way you do, in a debate. Because that’s what I thought it was, a debate on what’s good and evil.

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I don’t think undeath should be accepted as a norm IC. How could you ever look a walking corpse, especially if the body is falling apart, and go “yes, this is perfectly normal”?

The undead are generally frowned upon and so they should be. They’re cursed beings that defy the natural order of life. Not to mention how dangerous they can be. I’m sure most of the residents in Azeroth (especially those of Eastern Kingdoms) have either had very bad time with the undead or at least heard stories of tragic incidents.

I find it perfectly fine for people to ICly distrust or avoid the undead, Ebon and Forsaken included. Why would you want to go for a friendly chat with a DK, who looks like they’ll murder you and your dog without a second thought?

And to rp as an undead one should acknowledge what they are and understand that maybe they’re not welcomed with hugs and flowers at the local tavern of a region constantly under threat by mindless undead. Character traits can of course be quirky, I wouldn’t point a finger OOCly at someone having a social undead character if they’re still aware of actually being undead and not just rping like you would any living being. Kinda defeats the purpose of rping an undead in the first place, if it’s just used for the sake of an edgy title.

Personally I don’t mind ICly getting spat in the face (figuratively speaking) by a follower of the Light or someone who despise the undead, if it’s kept to a fair amount and isn’t completely unreasonable. Yet it is completely fine to have a civil conversation with an undead as well.

I’ve noticed that many have (de)ceased from ICly showing their character’s issues with the undead or cursed beings overall. I do know the reasons why it has died down, but I do miss the little confrontations, like the petty squabbles between Ebons and Light users for example. You should be able to criticize the undead without being labeled as a zealot.

Apologies for my incoherent rant.

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I’ve seen so many people get incredibly upset over that both ICly and OOCly. I’ve had numerous times where my kul tiran would mumble something about some undead, only to be met with hostility in whispers or actual kill emotes, just for calling them a filthy undead while passing by!

(Or the whole… “I’M ACTUALLY A NICE DEATH KNIGHT YOU CAN’T BE MEAN TO ME NOOOO”)

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The key here is balance.
A lot of people simply go “Undead RP spotted! You are evil! You are rotten!” which is okay… but like, where do you go from there? Because if the interaction is going to be solely about that, and a lot of time it is, then it’s kind of uninspired and lame.

Yes, it is what we see in the lore, but in general this is the beginning of the plot, with characters eventually either fighting together or against each other. You don’t have 200 minutes of that, because I can assure you it would be boring.

The context and place is also kinda important, you can definitely understand this reaction in some places (ie. Stormwind) more than others (ie. a campaign), where undeads are useful. Lastly, undeads are kind of threatening and dangerous, so insulting them outright is often a bad idea, and keeping your dislike to yourself appears more reasonable - what one expects anyway? that by repeatedly reminding them of how evil they are, they’ll just agree and blow themselves up?

That being said, the opposite is also true. There’s nothing more annoying and setting-breaking that witnessing a somewhat evil class going for “oh but you see, I’m fighting alongside you, so if you hate me loads you’re a zealot or a bad guy, also I’m part of good guys TM order so that makes me good guy approved!” and it’s telling of a main character syndrome where said character is often a unique and extraordinary exception, much to my annoyance.

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Yeah this happens a lot; people just blindly accepting every character, regardless of how cosmically antagonistic their archetype is and has been in the setting, and then scolding you for reacting appropriately in-character.

I expect for Kuwei to earn someone’s trust, and not be given it blindly. She is, after all, a Death Knight, who are known to forsake morals and ethics for what they believe is necessary.

To this day I wish Blizzard wrote any kind of consequences for the attack on Light’s Hope Chapel.

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There is also something else to take into account here.

Speaking of Forsaken in the Horde and the Death Knights in the Alliance, something which is often overlooked beyond the common trait of being undead is their difference in interactions within said faction and their nature as undead.

Starting with the interactions of these two types of characters with their factions.

While Forsaken have had some VERY bad cases out there, there have been plenty of examples of them doing things that make their faction trust them, like for example sending an entire batallion to relieve the blood elves in the Ghostlands for which the blood elves were extremely grateful for (especially for a quite isolationist people), the fact that practically nobody beyond Putress’ closest allies (inc. Varimathras) sided with him during post-Wrathgate, so on and so forth.

While there is a basis for distrust, there can also be a basis for certain characters to trust the Forsaken within their own faction for one reason or another. It creates a dynamic in which while mutual distrust can be very much present, it isn’t so necessarily overwhelming that the possibility of mutual agreements and working with one another is out of the realm of possibility.

Then, there is the Death Knights of Acherus and the Alliance, which have almost gone out of their way to drive their PR to the ground, to a faction that was already known for being extremely aggressive to anything undead, sentient, mind-controlled or otherwise.

Not only did they attack the Argent Crusade mid-Burning Legion invasion, they did so to, in the POV of Stormwind, desecrate the body of the very same Silver Hand paladin that was the reason why some of them were even allowed to rejoin the Alliance as Death Knights in the first place.

As for the difference in their nature as undead, while Forsaken are indeed just as undead as death knights are, and have to deal with the bare minimum of the fact that they have died (at least once) and are reanimated with dark magic, they do not need to really feed on anything to survive.

They do not even need to mass-murder to stave off losing their minds, as is demonstrated by the fact that the only undead that has suffered from ‘brainrot’ (which was then found out to just be a demon messing with his head) is an undead wizard that has been a corpse since about 2.8k years before the fact.

As for Death Knights, it’s the complete opposite. Death knights need to kill, or at least, engage in something that constantly causes pain to others.

While Death Knights can have personalities and emotions, everyone around them has to weigh in the fact that they are one too many moments of calm away from turning around and facing their blade at you, like a vampire giving in to their hunger for blood and losing control.

You can roleplay a forsaken in a casual setting and quite easily write them out in a way that makes nearby characters far less uneasy than they would be otherwise, while doing that on a death knight is almost impossible to do, and that’s without mentioning the problem of trying to find what is your death knight’s reasoning for engaging in a casual scene with non-death knights or non-allies.

Whatever the character’s opinion on undead might be, the Eternal Hunger of Death Knights is an everpresent threat. In my own opinion, it’s probably quite likely that even living characters who are 100% fine with undead put more than a few steps of distance between themselves and a death knight.

TL;DR to this wall of text: Roleplaying a death knight in a casual setting is a daunting task. If you want to roleplay an undead and frequently engage in casual scenes, your best bet is playing a forsaken, but even then you’re likely to find some conflict from time to time.

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Join the Gest or the Coven, they are all nasty too and also great guilds!

Weird plug but ok.

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Unintentional(?) poetry aside anyone who is giving you grief over your choice of race/class combination in RP? They’re not worth your time. Blizzard allowed you to be this choice and as a result is entirely lore friendly.

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