Don’t you see all the afk leechers on Alliance side that just want the game to end asap because a long game is never worth it? This is a math problem, not a psychology problem.
That depends on the game and the scale of the gameplay. People don’t think the same in small groups as they do in large groups, and they don’t interact the same way either.
And you say it affects gamers too, but there are only correlations you can draw between them. The research itself isn’t based on gamers though, it’s based on sports.
Also, in this particular case, you need to include the role of social media and “infectious ideas”. Hence all the echoes. Which is not really a thing in sports psychology for athletes.
Ok, I’ll bite. Again. It’s not like I have anything better to do at work.
The BG numbers were hidden.
Was farming Horde players at their cave respawn point an exploit? That got “fixed” after forum whining. Pretty sure it was on the US forums though.
I could’ve worded that better. I wasn’t talking about the amount of Horde players vs Alliance players, I meant the actual advantages the Horde faction and races have over the Alliance. You wouldn’t agree with them anyway though so no point in talking about it more. (Hint, stun res, AV map, Zeppelins vs Boats, …)
Uhm, are you aware of the thread you are in? Personally, I don’t really care what happens to Classic. I’d like to see them mix things up a bit regarding PvP though. I don’t see how you could be against the OP’s suggestion. If Horde is right and the map is Balanced, nothing would change and you’d still be able to enjoy your 99.9% win rate with 2 hour queues.
But if Alliance suddenly starts beating Horde with the spawns reversed, that may actually wake up Blizzard and get them to change some small things about the map. This would motivate the Alliance to be more active in AV, causing the queue time for Horde to go down, and epic battles would unfold.
Unless you don’t actually want epic battles, but easy wins.
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Ok how does that favor horde?
No?
Ok, so you are saying they fixed the Cave spawn farm on Horde but not on Alliance? Becasue if they fixed it on both side, how does that favor horde?
Ok but if you talk about the faction as a whole and not only races per se, Alliance are the stronger pvp faction with paladins and Dwarf Priests.
Ignored, as in I have put you on forum ignore. What a waste of time to talk to you. A dishonest Straw Man that doesn’t even care about Classic…
You tell me where all the afk leechers are last I heard they are sitting in temporary bans and I check the map you almost never see players afk out until shgy is lost then it’s down to the map imbalance yet again.
idk, ask these guys I guess:
I could probably find a lot more examples, this was just 1 minute of searching.
I don’t remember a lot of alliance complaining about it, but it was swiftly fixed once the Horde found their way to the forums. Must’ve just been a coincidence.
I don’t agree with this at all, but I’ve spent enough time on these forums to know not to go into detail on this topic with you.
Haha you’re like those Boomers that send you a 10 page whisper, then when you reply you get a message that they’re ignoring you.
That’s one way to “win” an argument. Probably feels as good as an AV win for Horde.
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No, it does not depend. People strive to execute successful strategies. That’s how humans improve. Whatever psychological impact has on performance gets lesser and lesser the more you play. You’re just stuck in shaky maths because you think the gametree is a lot larger than what it actually is.
There isn’t any huge decisionmaking process where a player with a certain mindset will perform worse than another player with a stronger mindset. Players aren’t just introduced to their classes and dont know wtf to do. When you try to win enough times and you just keep on losing you give up. You see that it doesn’t matter what strategy you execute because there are conditions that are impossible to overcome. Then you get a leader who motivates you. This is all part of the learning curve btw. And you still lose. When you repgrind to exalted you get to see a multitude of different strategies tried. You also see that the problem isn’t with motivation because there are many BGs where people coordinate and motivate to a level Horde never have to do. And it’s still not enough.
Horde uses a strategy which varies very little depending on what Alliance does. Get SH and a few dedicated players mop up resistance on IB and surrounding towers. Alliance players have no strategy to counter the Horde strategy because IB gets too easily overrun. Every coordinated try on IB is a gamble and if that gamble fails the battle is lost.
There is only one big hurdle and that is affecting the winrate. Horde cave got moved up so that the opposing factions don’t reach the lake at the same time. The cave position makes IB close to impossible to take. Move back the cave and observe winrates get more even. Do you dispute that?
Horde can rush SH and the resurrecting players will automatically defend IB. It plays itself which is why it is so easy for a bunch of randoms to execute together. In time Horde will take SH because just one cap will set back ressing Alliance players to starting cave and that’s that.
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Uhm… Yes, there is. It even has a name. Adversity. Some rise, some fall. That’s an individual trait and is also affected by emotional investment.
Advertisity isn’t constantly there. It’s just a part of the learning curve. People rise through adversity. Anyways, you need to read what I write and stop with this clipping one cherrypicked sentence nonsense. But I guess it’s just who you are. When times get tough, you put your blindfold on.
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Uhm… No, the Horde cave is where it was since the beginning of BGs in Vanilla. It was moved further south because of reasons stated earlier.
No, I actually don’t dispute that. Because it’d be like an uplifting wind for the Alliance. It just won’t be because of the map, at all. It’ll just be because of a significant change in the widespread mindset.
You’re grasping at straws, you know. You keep relying on correlational evidence and claim it’s causational. Which is a load of bull.
HAHAHAHAHA
Stop watching youtube videos about psychology please.
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That’s rich, coming from the one using something which isn’t even applicable, from sports psychology.
Yeah I will remember that the next time I spam frostbolt. Maybe my losing mindset makes my frostbolt miss.
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Brilliant haha
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Yep… Grasping at straws again. You do know it has nothing to do with that, right? You’re saying it affects the mechanical outcome of the game, but that isn’t really a thing. It’s like saying mindset affects the way a bishop can move in chess.
Which isn’t even close to what I’ve said.
However, choosing to attack, choosing to run, choosing to wait, choosing to heal, choosing to fake cast, choosing what to hit, choosing when to hit, choosing which ability to use, choosing when to pop a consumable, choosing where to run and when, reading the events on the map to decide what to do next and so on.
These are all decisions you make, which all affect the outcome of a BG. In every BG. It’s part of the PvP.
Your circlejerking is becoming a bit inbred though.
But dude. Don’t you see it, what you just worte?
“you almost never see players afk out until shgy is lost then it’s down to the map imbalance yet again.”
No, it’s down to Alliance players rather losing fast that winning slow. You just blame the map imbalance. But fact is that the whole AV map is designed to be slow and easy to defend.
When Alliance tag the IBGY Horde ALWAYS, aaaaaaaaallways defend it HARD. You never see Horde start being semi-afk or leaving at that point. We defend hard. We defend every GY and tower HARD and we don that for 1h or more if needed.
Alliance doesn’t do this and the reason is simple. It’s more rewarding to lose fast than to win slow when you have a short queue. Not everyone care about that, but many enough to make Horde win 98% of all games. It’s rewarding to win slow as horde but not rewarding to win slow as Alliance. All Horde have to do is to defend hard and we got a lot of practice doing that against the premades. I have been in games where we all knew 100% sure we would lose and not cap anything, but we defended hard from start to end. Having a long queue is REALLY motivating. We have seen all the Alliance tactics and we heave learned how to counter them and we have the stamina for it. Alliance often have the strength to push hard, but with the current reward system, they never have the stamina to finish. It’s really just based on math.
Can’t you see this? I can agree that you can nit pick details in AV and point and say that this detail is imbalanced and have some part of the equation. But as a whole, it’s all based on what is efficient or not. It’s not efficient for Alliance to win slow and you can only win slow in a pug vs pug when one faction defends hard in AV specifically. WSG/AB doesn’t work in that way so most of the motivated Alliance play those bgs where the reward is better and Horde can’t stall as easy.
Tah-dah, there’s your answer.
People give up once this happens and boom… alliance won’t defend and push back as it’s useless honor per hour…
You blame it on the “map design” then you state that they AFK once the horde breach past SHGY… that’s not a map design flaw… that’s literally a defeatist attitude as people are like “No point now, they’ve got past that point”
The only times I win AV as alliance is when the alliance players actually defend whilst a group attacks… which is what the HORDE do…
The alliance is either all attack or defend.
This my entire point It’s nothing to do with Efficiency it’s completely to do with map balance. The fact is that it’s almost impossible to take back shgy when you spawn so far away 58 seconds on a mount to reach it with such a tight choke horde can defend it rolling there face along a keyboard .we just cannot get it back so the only two options is afk or defend the bridge until horde summons Lok which then we lose anyway.
It’s very easy to say you defend hard when you spawn 28 seconds away 20 a time when you don’t even have to push through a choke point or high ground.
Swap the maps like the post says and you will eat your words garunteed. You can be the best players on the server you ain’t getting past shgy choke
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Except the best players on servers during premades did manage just fine. The difference is that your individual impact on the outcome in a large scale BG like AV is much smaller than it is in a BG size of 10-15 man.
Simply put, it’s not enough for just YOU or a few of your buddies making the “right” choices and playing “perfectly”. You need more of your team to make those same good plays for it to affect the outcome.
So because you lack that widespread winner mentality, you’ve always had a much higher average of naysayers and basically scrub PvEers backpedaling and keyboard turning without a mouse. The WPvP phase sure as hell made that very clear.
So as soon as your “winners”, i.e. the top premaders left once they mitigated the premade exploits, you’ve kept getting a much worse average of players.
In every PvP game, there’s a “top” and a “bottom”. The core gamers vs. the casual gamers. These are already well-defined in the video game industry.
You’ve just got much less of your “top” queuing for it, and always had much fewer of them, ever since their premades got shut down.
And then the problematic mindset issues spread like wildfire because of anonymous social media causing hypersensitive reactions.
Or as American politicians would call it, a “good campaign move”. 
Ok, you are wrong. I know this based on 5 years of playing Both alliance and Horde in Classic and various private servers in various different versions.
Also, even if you were correct, it would not make any difference as Classic is a recreation of the game, how it was. The AV map is an authentic recreation of the 1.12.1 version.
But this is not a bad thing, this is a good thing. Because even though the map can’t be change (it literally can’t be changed and the sides can’t be switched) the reward and queue system can be tweaked because it already have been.
If you are right, this issue can’t be fixed. The map can’t be fixed becasue the map is a recreation of a map.
If I am right, it can be fixed by tweaking the queue and reward system in AV because the queue system is not a recreation.
I am making reasonable claims based on years of personal experience that can be fixed. You are making unreasonable claims that can’t be fixed. This whole thread is unreasonable and can only be seen as a fun thought experiment at best.
For example. Why haven’t anyone suggested to increase the rewards in AV for the winning faction to the point where it’s rewarding enough for alliance to win a slow game. That would be pretty easy to implement and easy to argue for.