I dare blizzard to swap the faction spawns for 1 week in AV

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
181

Not even close? You are truly delusional. You talked about perceptions and statistics because you know there are none about classic and suggest that an alliance pug player lose just as much in every other bg like in AV. So can you finally answer my question, do you think the avarage pug alliance player lose ratio is close to the same on ab/wsg and AV game? If not do you think the same players for some reason become a lot worse when they enter AV and make a 99% lose rate but can win every third wsg or ab? If you think the 99% lose is overexaggaration then you are a horde player probably. But if you are a horde player can you tell me when was the last time you lost an AV and how frequent is that?

Edit: Yeah that last line was a mistake to ask, after most of your responses you will probably just something like “durr i just lost an AV (insert random day here) ago” lie just to keep up your agenda.

182

You really need to learn how to read. That isn’t what I implied. I specifically stated it’s much more varied from individual to individual, due to circumstances that has nothing to do with the maps.

Which de facto means your claim about overall win statistics in other BGs is completely made up.

183

We have like 4 realms and one of them is dead but yeah we have less players on all 4 servers than your average EU server has so no one BGs during the day especially since AQ40 came out so the only option is to form premades with fixed time (about 20:00-00:00 cet). Since we got separated and AV farming died out it’s pretty much a necessity to form premades for people who still want high ranks.

184

You can’t say PLAYERS with an S because it’s not the same playerS, it’s only same the same PLAYER.

Yes as a collective the collective become much worse in AV because the motivated players in general don’t play AV because the rewards are better in WSG/AB. The faction with short queue doesn’t get the same reward as the faction with long queue in long games compared to WSG/AB.

On top of that you also have motivated players that just don’t want long game that rather lose fast than win slow so they push for 15min and then stop. Happens all the time. Even against russian premades. They push and do as much as possible in a short time and then stop, because it’s not rewarding to win a slow game when you have a short queue.

Sometimes the allaince are in fact better than Horde in AV and get many more HKs and push us back, but as I just said, they stop pushing because it’s not worth it to fight for a win in a long game, it’s more rewarding to fight and then stop, as they always do.

Horde as a collective got a lot of practice to stop short games when we was fighting premades. If Alliance want to beat Horde they CAN do that really easy, just defend and defend and defend, and after 1h maybe 1h30min the Horde will also start breaking and 15-20 Alliance can push south, I guarantee it. But for that you need more motivated players than Horde, and therein lies the problem, Horde in general have more motivated players, ready for a long fight, due to the long queue and Alliance does not. As a collective.

1 Like
185

I’m sorry but you know way too little about momentum and mindset to be having this discussion. Mindset and momentum is applicable in all human performances upon execution. That means that it encompasses sports, games, trading and other sorts of actions made by humans.

However, players spend an enormous amount of time to learn their class. Most decisions are automated after playing so much. The only way there will be a psychological aspect having impact on player choices is when the game are closing in on a loss which for Alliance will be either a, when they cap IB and it fails or b, when they lose SH. That’s when people lose motivation and don’t wanna fight anymore. They could of course turn it around 1 in 50 or so, but the psychological aspect is negligible.

The self fullfilling prophecy and martyrdom can be observed in some humans but of course it’s not applicable to everyone as the Dunning Krueger curve show. We learn mostly even if we spend some time sobbing. But it all comes down to your inability to understand theoretical concepts and seeing what practical implications they have.

1 Like
186

I’m sorry but you understand way too little about the way it was researched to say anything about it.
Mindset =/= momentum, stop confusing the two.
Secondly, sports psychology and research are a very different beast from general psychology and sociology, because athletes are driven. They’re the ones who survived “the jungle” to get to where they are. So to use sports psychology as a basis to judge everything and everyone is flawed in so many ways, it’s like you’re shouting how dumb you truly are.
Another way to put it is that the inherent emotional investment is not even close to being the same. So observing one to judge the other is not even close to being applicable.

Just fyi, the mental state is very different too. While an athlete runs on a very specific balance of chemicals, a gamer is focused more on the mental aspect and energy alone. You need to compare it more to chess players to even get close to what it’s like. Which is just another reason why your reliance on sports psychology is so incredibly stupid.

187

Just fyi, social media and its effects on masses of people is a relatively new field of study, so to assume it to be “minimal” is baseless in these circumstances. You seem to be basing that claim off of less relevant stuff yet again.
Especially considering the way only a few, very unconfirmed talking points keeps spreading and echoing, and the irrationality being so prevalent about Classic WoW PvP ever since the WPvP phase started.

188

Well you are clueless. An athlete performs and get instant feedback on his performance. Just like a gamer. When results accumulate it affects the mental performance of the athlete /gamer. That’s mindset and momentum related. You are clueless.

You talk about how it’s about infectious ideas that somehow manifests in negative cognitive behaviour. I can see how it would effect the truths which circulate in chat and on forums but from there to draw any support of conclusion about how it effects real decisions is H U M B U G. You are owling in fringe science and completely fail to apply it practically. Just like I have said all along. You are clueless.

189

If you use an athlete as an AV metaphor it would be like Alliance and Horde are running a Marathon. Horde get the price money if they finish the race no matter if they win or lose and Alliance get the price money directly if the just make it half way and they don’t get any extra reward for winning or finishing in fact they get less rewards if they finish compared to stopping half way to join the next race.

This is basically what is happening in AV right now and how one faction of random puggers can win 98% of all games total and 100% of all games against random alliance puggers.

190

That’s not relevant or interesting at all.

191

How is an AV metaphor based on your off topic metaphors not relevant in an AV thread? It’s an exact reason why one team of random puggers can beat the other team 100% of the time…

192

Here I have a screenshoot from my last AV. The Hill of Shame is what Horde calls it. Where alliance go when they want to lose asap to get maximum honor for time invested:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/614081264751738920/756509751155622018/hillofshameav.jpg

This is what happens in almost every AV. When horde defend, the honor per hour drop for the faction with a short queue so they rather stop fighting and lose fast than fight to win slow.

193

There is no slow win for Alliance on this version of the map that people could fight for. Never has been and never will be. Once SH is lost without having a GY south of it, it is nearly impossible for Alliance to fight for a win because they’re stuck behind one of the best chokes in the game and the only way to get past it is to abandon defence completely.

2 Likes
194

I never said there’s no relation between the two. Seems you didn’t really understand the points made, if that’s what you’re trying to bite at.

Ok, to simplify it for you, you’ve got an athlete in one state of mind, solidified after years and years of rigorous training and growing accustomed to competition. Then you’ve got another person, the gamer, in another state of mind, playing for very different reasons and is in general untrained, or not accustomed to that constant competition.

What they concluded was that those actual athletes don’t really let falling behind affect their judgement, but that requires those same years of hard practice to overcome. While the more fickle type, the gamer, doesn’t go through such training.

What Neym was saying is that mindset and momentum are basically synonymous and is somehow equally applicable to anyone as they are to the athletes that observation is based on, but that’s just simply stupid.

There’s good reason athletes say that practice is the one thing that will never fail you.

To clarify it even further for you, I’ve been talking about players being in a permanent negative mindset when it comes to AV on the Alliance side, and how that negative mindset has spread rapidly and consistently via social media, i.e. forums, youtube, in-game chats etc. where strangers can talk to each other.

This leads to a more emotional engagement than a rational one, so you see the same talking points, regardless of how ludicrous or unfounded they are, being repeated over, and over, and over again.

This is why this crap is so similar to modern political activists. There’s just a few talking points spreading, via amateur propaganda. Now I’ll just assume you don’t have much faith in political activism of today.

195

That’s just another way of saying what I am saying. It’s not worth it to fight for a slow win. I mean when we beat premades, we never get the choke until they give it to us.

I have been in countless AV where Alliance push us back all the way to IB GY, but after 15min you can feel how like half the alliance team disappears, even before we cap SH GY. They know that if they continue to push, and they can, and they can win, it would take 1-2h easy. Not worth it.

196

Leave it be, hordes are in denial. They think they are good but they are not.

By some miracle today we managed to cap IBGY on the first push and from there horde went into a panic, they desperately try to do what they do all the time: use map advantage to turtle alliance out.

It didn’t work, map got painted blue and we won.

Really guys, you are not good you are just going thru motions in autopilot and if something fails in the usual SHGY zerg strategy, horde pugs displays exactly zero capacity to coordinate a real plan of action.

Exactly like it happens on the blue side.

Yet again, let’s leave it be. There is no point in arguing with those who won’t listen to reason.

2 Likes
197

Because I’m taking about psychological implications affecting decionmaking while you come up with a crsppy alliteration.

1 Like
198

I don’t understand anything of what you just wrote.

199

Yeah I know.

1 Like
200

I mean I do understand what you wrote. I just don’t understand why you wrote it. It’s basically philosophy.