You were literally talking about the mechanics and the numbers of the game. As in how difficult it is, i.e. what it’s tuned for. That’s what theorycrafting is about, to follow the numbers you can push out, handle and so on.
You’re trying to read a meaning into a sentence that was never meant.
Ever heard of subconscious slip-ups? You say what you mean, but you don’t realise it consciously.
There is very little I can reply with at this point that isn’t a flat out insult to your intelligence, which I’ll abstain from doing.
Just stop. What you are doing is passive-aggressive trolling. It isn’t productive and it isn’t helpful to anyone.
News just in, classic was easy. Next up, captain obvious.
1 Like
You mean unlike your generalization that isn’t applicable? Which you even contradicted yourself in a later post.
See? You first say “it’s easier for us because we understand the game better”, yet they understood the game just fine back then too. There are people on retail who still doesn’t understand things like that, despite the conclusions being more readily available from the same kind of theorycrafting methods used since the dawn of the genre. People have shared tactics and so on even since back then as well, it was just not made readily available to everyone. It was comprised of social networks and word of mouth instead.
Face, meet palm. Palm, hit face.
They did this intentionally so that people would go back to BfA
Less people in a queue? I like it.
I don’t measure it in good/bad. If people wanted to experience how it was then that would be the approach.
But those aren’t the people who are already running MC, which was the topic of the debate 
The fact is that even if we had the exact difficulty level of the initial Rag release with all the exact patches and balances and numbers, if people could finish Rag with their maxed out gear back then while knowing nothing about Rag and for the most part knowing nothing about the ideal min/maxed gear for the raids, today they are armed with the knowledge of all the moves, all the ideal stat distributions, the ideal gears, the ideal party setups available with a simple Google search.
And therefore they could do MC trivially if they had the gear they needed back then when we knew nothing, when all this information wasn’t well-known and wasn’t widely available. And so they can compensate for worse gear than that.
My problem is not with MC/Ony being cleared in week1. This was something we, the players coming from private servers, already knew would happen and we even knew the names of the guilds that would do it.
My problem is with all the shenanigans that came with this. Layer hopping is not “clever use of game mechanics” - it’s an exploit. The fact that Blizzard is banning people who hopped layers in dungeons and raids clearly shows that it’s an exploit, even to those that claim that “if it went past beta, then it’s okay”.
Raid XP was an exploit. The fact that it got promptly fixed (although not promptly enough) is proof of this.
Earlier yesterday I asked a question in another thread - how is it possible that a rogue (from Golemagg) is WF epic mount, beating mage and hunter who are way better at farming? The answer was "secrets 
". Now we know the answer was “layer hopping for resources and rare patterns”.
I have no problem with APES killing Rag and Ony in week 1. I have a problem with how they did it, and how this same private-server community which I belong to completely butchered the vanilla experience in Classic, abusing every single open door left by Blizzard and having the moral disability to claim that “if it went past beta, it’s not our fault”.
This is not vanilla. Layering never should have worked beyond 30lvl zones and in dungeons/raids. Raid XP should’ve been fixed before Classic was launched. You f^cked up, Blizzard. At this point it’s not even funny. I’d be more than happy to lose all my characters in a full purge now and to start all over than to keep playing this… “thing” that you call “Classic WoW”.
You, Blizzard, legitimately performed worse with Classic than most vanilla private servers have performed with their launches over the last 5 years or so. And this is not an exaggeration or a generalization - it’s an observation by someone who has played on those servers.
You’re walking into the territory of small differences now. Yeah, it’ll likely take fewer wipes. Doesn’t mean it trivializes the numbers you’re supposed to play through, THAT comes from the “number tweaking”, the talent changes, the item changes and so on.
You’re conflating the two.
The better guilds back then weren’t worse than now. And the private servers were in fact different, in all kinds of ways, INCLUDING procc rates. The MC encounters were tuned higher on private servers as well, although the empowerment changes with 1.12 certainly didn’t help its difficulty in classic.
And they still didn’t manage to figure out that engineering is completely busted and should be a requirement for every raider, kind of how it is for hardcore guilds today?
People are better and know more today, that’s an undeniable fact.
It’s a difference between a community-driven requirement to min-max to what a person wants out of a game. Back then, there wasn’t a need to min-max even professions, but they did have engineers in the raids too just fyi.
The top guilds practised MC runs against a tuned up MC with the least level of gear they could do it with for months on private servers. If they could do that back in 2005, they’d have beaten MC back then too with a bunch of lvl 55 characters, skipping the grind between 55 and 60. Whichever patch we’re actually running is irrelevant to this, they’d have practised against 1.8 if Classic was to run on 1.8 and achieved pretty much the same, just with different talents/exact gear.
This, and more like this.
The topic is literally about whether it’s the patches that trivialised the content or whether it’s min/maxing and knowledge, point being is that it’s both, but the min/maxing is doing a damn heavy lifting.
Is the world black and white to you? Think of it more in percentages. It’s not just one or the other. But you’re trivializing the relevance of the 1.12 changes.
Sure, let’s rephrase it as “how much of it is patches and how much is min/maxing” (see my edit that was posted before your reply as well). But I’d bet good money that if it was 1.8, or 1.11, people would still min/max and they would still make the game look far easier than it was back then, making a lot of the grind you needed back in 2005-2006 seem obsolete. That’s just how people are.
But we’ll never know, since, well, we are on 1.12, and 1.8 or 1.11 isn’t coming back
Did you know that 40% of all assumptions on the internet are made up?
Sure. But surely that doesn’t include your assumption about the opposite, does it? Oh wait!