lol you act like premades enjoy going up against other premades…We breathe a sigh of relief whenever we go against pugs. That’s all it’s about. Easy kills.
It has nothing to do about how much we love to play “organized team play”…
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If that was the case, people wouldn’t raid either.
The difference between the two cases is that raiding is:
- A somewhat contained commitment - generally no more than 2-4 nights per week, 3 or so hours per night;
- A guild-specific affair, most times - i.e. if you raid on certain terms with a guild (or heck, even with a scheduled PuG), what other people do doesn’t really impact you
In PvP neither point is true. Premades generally require commitments of several hours per day. And these premades directly impact other people’s ability to just PuG, like in PvE’s case.
What this means is that, while in PvE you have a flexible environment that caters just as well to hardcore and casuals, in PvP you have a toxic situation where the hardcore segment of the playerbase flat-out denies a decent playing experience to the rest. I’m not even talking about ranking, here - even just being able to win a couple battles (let alone farming rep in WSG/AB) is all but impossible outside these sweaters’ premades.
I’m not saying this because I advocate for changes, mind you. Classic is a flawed game in many respects, and if you fixed all these aspects it simply wouldn’t be Classic anymore (and I doubt people would even be able to agree on what/how to fix, as exemplified by this thread). However, let’s avoid idiotic generalizations like the one in your thread title, please - as if the problem didn’t even exist.
The only reaosn ppl get to whine about pvp it’s because it’s against other players and so they feel inferior, hurting their ego a lot.
All I see here are ppl who want to feel special with 0 efforts and where this isn’t possible they ask Blizzard to make special rules advocating their cause. The PvP system we have is supposed to favor premades exactly because that is the better option against either other premades or pugs. Whining about that would be like whining about not being able to do C’thun in pug and asking Blizzard to add normal/hard/mythic difficulties because it’s unfair that only well organized guild get to wear the AQ 40 stuff and they don’t like wipes.
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Being able to play a winnable (not even winning) game without having to play 8-10 hours per day in a premade is not “0 effort”. This is a game, not a freakin job.
People are free to play the game however they want ofc, but if you think that a person who just logs on in the evening for a few hours, wanting to have some decent time in BG, is putting in “0 effort” then maybe you need to rethink your life priorities.
EDIT: The comparison with C’thun is also flawed, because you can be a raider in Classic while still not having to play 8+ hours each day.
your comparison is flawed. You’re talking about rankers, not premades dude. You don’t have to play 8h a day to join premade. All you need is to join discord and find the team who’re lacking your class. Ofc sometimes all of them will be full, but nobody is asking you to play 8h a day. There’re top bracket seeking premades who will ask you to do that, but those are extremely rare, while there’re so many where you just join, play a game and can leave…
Half of the people arguing pro premades in pvp…
If that’s what you want, why is it a good slice of premades just quit if they end up on a bg against another premade (or both sides kindly let’s the other kill them 10 times before quitting)? Why do groups specifically scout bg’s to check they are up against pugs before entering?
These are facts and clear proof the system is being abused. For the majority, this has nothing to do with being loyal to how Vanilla was, it’s purely about protecting their precious honor per hour.
Not saying the system is any different from Vanilla, just people are using it in different ways now, ways that weren’t intended and that deserves action.
As I’ve said before, in Vanilla, you’d go up against premades 30%-40% of the time, mostly only during peak hours, now pugs are going up against premades 90%+ of the time.
Some people aren’t tryhard pvp lovers that spend 16 hours a day in bg’s, some people just want to jump in for an hour or 2 a day when it suites them and still be able to slowly get rep and maybe a bit of honor from it, which is near impossible with the way things are right now. Of course, they shouldn’t be rewarded to the same degree as those doing nothing but pvp, but there should at least be some pay off for these people after some time.
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low iq classic player post
I’m sorry, what exactly makes you think this wasn’t intended?
Just because people didn’t play so efficiently back in the day doesn’t mean that Blizzard never intended them to. The honor system is what it is, a long grind. Blizzard knew damn well what the implication of such a system would mean, and they also knew of it’s negatives.
The negatives of the system is exactly why the honor system was discarded with TBC and has never been a thing since. Up until people wanted to play Classic again.
Neither are most premades.
But, since you were the one to say “Blizzard never intended X gameplay”, did you know that solo play was never intended?
Sure, a lone player could get further by themselves than other MMOs at the time, but you were never supposed to get the best items and best gear playing by yourself. It’s a teamwork based game and you all knew that when you signed up.
Stop asking for things to be changed and “fixed” and consider the following: J Allen Brack was right the whole time: You think you do, but you don’t.
Remember those words.
Blizzard didn’t intend much of anything in Vanilla days, they’ve pretty much admitted they didn’t have a clue what they were doing at the time and the fixes for this were implemented in TBC.
And if this was all intended… then they wouldn’t have touched what was happening in AV, but they did, so you have your answer right there…
There’s a difference between giving solo players a handicap in pvp and making things completely impossible for them by loopholing systems. If it was indeed intended, why do people have to use systems available outside of the game itself to coordinate things to get a premade into the same BG?
2006 When vanilla was out where were you?Tell me.Reason people wont premade:
Some play with their best friend or friends like 2-3 people and they dont wanna form premade.As they used to do in vanilla.They/we might do it once or two but when we click the fokin button for solo queue it means we want solo enemies.I think so far i say logicly things.Also some others dont know to speak english yes u heard right.Some people are not comfotable to speak in discord in english and this is understandable.But why i wrote all this people dont have respect for others instead of thinking the reasons they prefer to troll and get rude to others.
They touched AV because one side had the option of creating premades and the other didn’t. It’s also not a move that I supported.
Furthermore, Blizzard actually DID intend for this. They knew pretty well what would happen with the classic community once they actually experienced the classic game.
You’re not handicapped. You have every option to find a group of people to communicate with and play with. You don’t have to join a hardcore ranking premade, you just have to communicate with people.
Why is that so difficult in a teambased environment?
Furthermore, people COULD communicate via non-Blizzard means back in the day too, but they had no need to. By the time X-realm BGs became a thing in Vanilla, the HWL and GM gear was no longer BiS. Since it was no longer BiS, less people hardcore grinded to get it.
Incentive is the reason people do things. The rank grind is awful, people are doing whatever they can to reduce the amount of grinding that they need to do.
If you alter the system to tackle the premade meta, the meta is just going to change. You halted the 7 minute Drek Rush AV meta and the result was the premade WSG and AB meta. If you change the current meta, chances are that you’re just going to whine about the next meta.
Because there isn’t any way at all for Vanilla to fit your idea of a “fair and level playing field”. It’s just not going to happen, you’re playing the wrong game.
No, it doesn’t. It means you want to queue solo. Go play league if you want solo queue to only put you with solo players.
Now you tell me to go i must do it 
i step aside say whatever you want i dont care.Since you dont care
Forgot to say now the way the matchmaking works at wow it dont differs much from League of legends
Fine, I’ll go play League, as will every other player that doesn’t want to be forced into a premade to enjoy a couple of bg’s. Oh wait, that would mean no more pug pvpers playing Classic and then all the premades can come an moan here that they have no way of getting easy honor instead. Problem solved.
PS High Warlord on Horde and Field Marshall on Alliance in Vanilla, all solo, never touched a premade, but hell, I don’t know a thing about how things used to be…
Based on all the forum whining, people here would have you believe that 9/10 games are against a premade. If you and every single pug-only player leaves, that’s like what, 10% of the population?
That wouldn’t be a noticeable change. Furthermore, you know full well that people aren’t going to mass quit Classic because of premades. Realistically, altering the system would cause EVEN more damage.
If more people are competing for something, competition becomes MUCH tighter and other means of meeting the honor quota are required. As I said, less people cared about the honor gear back in the day. Less people will care about honor gear once we get AQ40, even less will care when we get Naxx and it’s all replaced.
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And you can play PvP too, you just aren’t going to win a lot.
And anyway, if the majority are “casuals” that means you are going to meet your peers most of the time, if premades are the majority then it means that even ppl who are able to play few hours per day can find a premades to join now and then and if you want to just join to steam off then PvP isn’t the best choice (if you expect to win a lot).
or maybe its time to say goodbye to some long standing myths .
since 2004 a lot of people played wow as single player mmorpg game.
they were more then happy enough with seeing people arond them without too much interaction.
yes when they were teens/early 20s they were seeking some social interactions in guild because they lacked it irl . but now in their 30s they have those interactions so they dont need them in game anymore.
dont get me wrong - if i was 18 and single again i would spend ton of time on discord with my buddies. and so would others. but lets be honest most of us are 30+ with families/kids so we escape into wow exackly because we want to have moment of peace from stressfull lives .
and certainly not to speak to some random internet people
time to grow up .
This is a Chinese thing where it’s a social norm to do that vs. premades with higher ranks than your own premade, but I’ve yet to see this happen in EU servers. Have you actually seen it happen? Because that falls under wintrading, and you can report them via hacks@blizzard.com
(It’s not wintrading to give up, but it’s wintrading to feed the opponents on purpose, like what you described.)
This hasn’t been possible for a long time, they removed the ability to see the enemy team until your own team is full. You should read some more, this has been mentioned a lot of times already.
They aren’t facts when you’re wrong.
That isn’t a thing. It’s either a single player game, or an MMORPG. It can’t be both.
What they did was actually design retail for casuals, as it’s commonly referred to.
You get lots of free epics, skill floor was raised and skill cap decreased so there’d be less difference between a good player from a bad player compared to the past, and how there are “lots of ways to play the game”.
During this time they also started adding a lot more convenience. Convenience like more and more stronger passives, fewer abilities you need to press on your own, more homogenized class designs, and lots of instant access to things. Even including raid locks, they got rid of a lot that was made to make the game take longer to play.
This is overall a part of what’s called the Overjustification Effect.
Meaning that when you’ve got solid intrinsic reasons for wanting to do something like playing a game, but you’re then given loads of extrinsic reasons to keep doing it, it leads to an adverse effect. It basically turns those people who were already doing it for those intrinsic reasons, off from playing the game.
Or in simpler terms, retail decided to get rid of a lot of punitive design aspects and reward you with a whole lot more for doing the same things you were already doing in the past.
As for “single player vs. social player”, when they turned retail into the most single player-friendly it has ever been in WoD with the garrisons where people afked day in and day out, the game lost almost 5 million players in just a couple of months according to official statistics.
Ever since then they stopped publishing official figures, but it was believed to be around 1.2 to 2-ish million players worldwide before the news of Classic broke out. This went up by quite a lot once Classic started coming around the corner of being released, but since then, Classic has lost around 60% of its player base since the release.
Blizzard themselves have a word for this. They called those people tourists. The ones that no matter how they actually did it, some will inevitably quit and never really invest themselves in the game.
With that out of the way, you don’t seem to realise the sheer stupidity of designing a game for people who doesn’t have time to play it, when it affects the people who already has time to play it.
That’s how you get retail. That’s how you get that overjustification effect.
It’s better for everyone if you people who doesn’t have the time to play it would just try to adapt to the game as it is, or go back to retail. Otherwise you’ll just get the same pattern of player retention that retail has shown over the last couple of expansions.
Keep in mind that you’re only complaining about one part of the game as a whole. The PvP. Not just PvP, but only the games where you face premades as a solo player.
Another little story for you, is that many people complain a lot about how hard it is to find reliable people to play with in retail, for all sorts of things. The amount of anecdotes about how a pug “went sideways” is endless.
There are psychological reasons for why that is and why many people hate playing the game while feeling isolated, which you can read all about in:
https://www.projecthorseshoe.com/reports/featured/ph18r8.htm
If you say “psychology doesn’t matter”, then you understand nothing at all about game design nor about psychology either. To paraphrase a US poster I saw once:
“Psychology doesn’t end just because it’s in a game.”
Anyhoo, also as mentioned many times already, there are “pug-friendly” premades, where people just join a premade and then leave when they want, with the leader replacing people whenever that happens to the best of his ability.
There are also surely many other “solo players” like yourself where you can just create your own pug, kind of like how you pug UBRS, and just find people to play with for the moment and then call it when you’re done. You can even do the searching via discord on your phone’s app so the pug has already started to fill up or is already full by the time that you log in, where you just need to invite the people who said they’re up for it.
You’re making it out to be way harder than it actually is.
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According to you people it’s 90% premades, how is it that more people queue solo???
We didn’t have close to this many MC/Bwl guilds back in vanilla either.