Mistweaver buff request

Classes Monk
84

Other players only notice Ring of Peace in M+ :frowning:

Paralyze puts us in combat, I prefer not to spec Tiger’s Lust, and dps seem to get credit for a “good stun”.

In other news, my guild finally killed heroic Sludgefist last night. I ran ATotM, Rising Mist, and RJW. Purple healing ilvl parse, blue dps ilvl parse, most healing done. Got one Innervate per pull, even had a little bit of mana left at the end of the fight.

But… why don’t I feel good about this?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aMjtkFGn3Hmw7Txh/#fight=last&type=healing&source=7

21% RJW
21% Essence Font
12% Revival
7% ReM
7% ATotM
…that’s my top 5 spells without a single targeted heal in there…
3% Vivify

And I think this is why M+ and raids are generating such different stories. Our ‘blind’ AoE healing is amazing; we can throw these out, kick the boss, and compete on the meters. Let us never moan about that because it’s actually a lot of fun and if you don’t have ATotM for raiding, you should get it!

Our typical strategy has been “spot heal with Vivify when needed” - my experience is that I really can’t afford to do that right now.

Which I think is why M+ feels hard. RJW and EF are less efficient with only 5 players to spread them around, and there have to be Vivifies. I tend to run Tear of Morning for dungeons to amp up the Vivify cleaves, but I do not feel nearly as good as I do in raids.

Anyhoozle, we probably all know about Icy Vein’s report on healers in M+ by now.

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/55948-the-most-popular-tanks-and-healers-for-mythic-in-shadowlands-season-1-week-6/

We should probably all be a bit concerned by this diagram…

Where we watch the gradual squeezing out of MW with M+ difficulty.

We’re clearly viable in a 10; we barely drop off at all up to that point. Less than half as many people are making us work in a 15 (percentage-wise). It gets very meta beyond that and I have no comments to make.

I think my point is that while we are viable for the levels of content that “most” players do, this diagram suggests that players who like to push higher keys are hitting a wall and possibly bringing other classes.

And that’s sad and troubling.

There’s a real risk of a snowball effect here, whereby players hear that MW “can’t do” a 15 and just… reroll. Because they can’t get groups anymore. I only ever run with my guild or community, but I certainly sympathise with those who were part of the pug world and are now cast out.

As the least represented class already, you’d think the goal was to make MW desirable and try to get roughly equal representation, but we’re going backwards.

My biggest worry is that Blizz leave it to 9.1 to look into this. Not sure we can take 3-4 months of losses, there’ll only be a few of us left by then :frowning:

3 Likes
85

just watched a holy pally do high m+ with ease, pushing 7-8k hps without his mana dropping below 80%, easily pulling up 5 people simultaneously by lazily casting a few spells. MW-s on the other hand look like they’re controlling a reactor, you can hear the keyboard almost breaking and it’s hectic as hell.
then again it’s a small sample size since you have to go to the dark web to find MW streamers

1 Like
86

I mean… nearly, yeah. Only guy I know of is:

https://www.youtube.com/c/MysticallTheMonk

But he’s mostly a PvP guy. Which is fine, we need that viewpoint, but it doesn’t really help with the M+ issue.

1 Like
87

I mean tbf, the reason you see so few MW’s in m+ is because the spec is underplayed. WW is good in both m+ and raids, but those are rarely seen too.

Monk is just underplayed, and no amount of buffs will change that.

1 Like
88

The problem is the report from Icy Veins shows that MW presence tails off the higher the keys go. Sure, we only have like 7-8% in +2s, but by +12s it’s down to 2-3%. This is indicative of a spec that is struggling; players can force it through lower content if they have the will, but significant numbers are just not managing to make it work when things get harder.

Obviously, some players are still coping at higher keys; but it’s much less, proportionately, than are doing that content with other classes.

Holy priest has the same problem. Disc meanwhile holds an almost static % of players right up to the high teens.

The overabundance of resto shamans should also be a warning call, but the other way round. This spec is clearly considered the most effective for high M+, and it should be reviewed for whether it’s a bit too strong vs the intended baseline.

This is anecdotal, but have you noticed the amount of WW in random BGs of late? They’re currently real high on dps charts and doing well in PvP, and I feel like there are way more than usual showing up in the world. Suspect some FOTM rerolling is happening.

Which is arguably healthy for an underplayed class; wouldn’t it be the goal to get players to try out the mechanics by overbuffing them a little, then normalising them to mid-pack later?

1 Like
89

You know why shaman is so often seen in m+?

There are two reasons.

  1. They have a kick. Kicks are very good, and shamans have one :slight_smile:

  2. A lot of people are playing shamans right now.

But in terms of damage and healing, they don’t do as much as you’d think.

90

I don’t think MW healing output in raids is that poor. In fact, I out heal my raid healers most of the time. I feel the biggest issue is in PvP and to some extent in Mythic+.

I play ATotM (PvE), and while I do think this should be a smart heal baseline ability, and not tied to a legendary or EF, but with the RM build it is really fun to play.

I would like a few simple changes:

  • Ability to use Life Cocoon, Diffuse Magic / Dampen Harm and Fortifying Brew while stunned.
  • Fortifying Brew cd reduced to 2mins and dmg taken reduced by 20% (Currently 3m cd at 15%) - MW only!
  • Life Cocoon CD reduced to 90 seconds (Currently 120 seconds) Duration reduced from 12 seconds to 10 seconds.
  • Remove GCD from Mana Tea
  • Remove GCD from Soothing Mist
  • Vivify base mana cost reduced to 3.5% base mana (Currently 4.1%, 3.5% was BFA)
  • Enveloping Mists base mana cost reduced to 5.5% base mana (Currently 6%)
  • Renewing mist duration increased to 24 seconds (currently 20 seconds)
  • Give us a Melee interupt.
  • 15% damage increase. (I do think this is still an issue in PvP as we don’t do range attacks except CJL)

I think these changes above would be a nice quality of life improvement without creating any imbalance.

Maybe more controversial would be the following:

  • Decrease Revival cd to 2m (Currently 3m) or Bake in the Rising Sun Revival conduit and if target is at max hp to be a shield for the remaining healing amount. Currently Revival is just crap for a 3m cd, I use it more as a mass dispel.
  • Either buff Spirit of the Crane to restore 0.85% base mana, or reduce it to 0.4% and make it a base line talent. Currently I don’t see why anyone would anything but Mana Tea in that row.
  • Personally, I’m not a fan of Yu’lon, I would take Chi-Ji all day. It definitely needs a rework.
3 Likes
91

MW are consistently the bottom or 2nd bottom healer, if you don’t see a problem then good for you, but for MW in a guild that min maxs, it’s pretty hard to justify not being benched for 90% of the raid on my fav class.

What utility do you have that other classes don’t to make up for doing less HPS than literally every other healer? Oh you don’t have any that another class doesn’t have? Guess you’re class is fine because YOU haven’t had problems.

Question, why are you bringing up mythic raiding on your monk when you’re 0/10 mythic? Are you not getting invited by the min maxers?

If a class brings nothing over another class AND also gets outhealed and out-utilitied then yes, buff them. Just because you are having fun doesn’t mean the class isn’t fundamentally weaker compared to literally every healer. If you’re saying we don’t have mana problems i’m afraid your group is carrying you, in any content where we actually have to heal, we’re oom 2x faster than any other healer.

1 Like
92

“You know why shaman is so often seen in m+?”

Because they can out-heal and out utility a monk?

4 Likes
93

What utility do you have that other classes don’t to make up for doing less HPS than literally every other healer?

Actually a braindead comment, seeing as I have addressed this multiple times. Go read some of my other posts, I am not explaining it again because you refuse to read.

Question, why are you bringing up mythic raiding on your monk when you’re 0/10 mythic? Are you not getting invited by the min maxers?

I’m 5/10 Mythic, with Inerva on 9% last night.

If you’re saying we don’t have mana problems i’m afraid your group is carrying you, in any content where we actually have to heal, we’re oom 2x faster than any other healer.

This really goes to show how little you actually know about the spec and healing in general. Please, go read some of my other posts and educate yourself.

94

“Actually a braindead comment” Nice, hostility over a discussion on pixels, you seem mature and well founded. You didn’t address it actually. Hence why i’m asking you to clarify now. I’m not going to scoure through your post history to check every discussion you’ve had for your answer either. Not everyone is your level of neet.
“I’m 5/10 Mythic, with Inerva on 9% last night.”
Really? Yet your char stil comes up 0/10? Interesting. Was you there for every boss? doesn’t sound liek a min max kind of guild

“This really goes to show how little you actually know about the spec and healing in general. Please, go read some of my other posts and educate yourself.”

Literally every top healer is saying monks go oom faster, but some recent 5/10 late mythic raider thinks he knows better cause he pushed some keys high during a fort week?

4 Likes
95

Really? Yet your char stil comes up 0/10? Interesting. Was you there for every boss? doesn’t sound liek a min max kind of guild

Look my name up on Warcraftlogs. I assume you’ve heard of that website?

Literally every top healer is saying monks go oom faster, but some recent 5/10 late mythic raider thinks he knows better cause he pushed some keys high during a fort week?

Great strawman argument

^read this
I’ve literally said it like 3 times, but every healer is within 5% hps of eachother.

But yes, let’s all listen to Brainblast. The level 20 shaman who plays a lot of Mistweaver.

Literally every top healer is saying monks go oom faster

Small correction to this. Try “Some top healers say Monks can go oom faster because the spec is more punishing than it has been in a long time” I’m in actual contact with people pushing world ranks, and strangely enough, I haven’t heard them say that MW actually does go oom faster than other healer specs (except for shaman because they are crazy mana efficient). MW has pretty good mana sustain because of Rising Mist, so I’m not sure where you are getting this idea from that MW “ooms quickly” when it’s not really true.

96

did you say that before or after “only an idiot looks at logs and HPS”?

97

did you say that before or after “only an idiot looks at logs and HPS”?

Can you quote me saying that please?

I might have said that looking at top healer logs is a horrible way to measure how good a spec/player is, and it is absolutely true.

Funny how people put words in your mouth when they can’t come up with an actual counter argument.

98

The only problem with you is you think everyone else here is a bad player. You are the only MW who thinks that there is nothing wrong with this spec. Yes I might have only 1 mythic kill but still I wanna be on the same level as a holy pala or a resto shaman/ disc priest. Have you seen other healers spell mana cost? Why we haven’t seen any MW monk the last 3 expansions on the race for the world first? Cause people would rather bring others cause they bring more benefit for the raid team. We all know there are many skilled and good MW around they are still not good enough. We wanna be more viable that’s all what we need.

99

Stop looking at what top guilds do, and instead go speak to people actually playing the spec at the highest level outside of top guilds. What else can I say? You won’t listen and it’s like I’m talking to a wall at this point.

You are the only MW who thinks there is nothing wrong with the spec

I’m really not, but whatever suits your narrative I guess.

You complain about our mana cost but for god’s sake, our mana is literally perfectly fine. I haven’t had a single “mana issue” in any of the raids I have been in, with or without innervate. They could make us less punishing maybe, but if you’re just “okay” at the spec, you won’t have mana issues. When I call people here “bad” it’s because I have checked their logs and confirmed that they have no idea how to play the spec.

And yes, MW has been bad the last couple of expansions I agree. However, we’re pretty good in SL. The community perception is that “MW is bad” so people are less inclined to bring us for raids/keys. I mean even some of the people who play the spec thinks it’s bad, so why shouldn’t everyone else? People are having good success with MW on the hardest bosses of the game in top 50/100 raiding, and you somehow think this class is not good enough for your Heroic runs or 4/10 Mythic guild? Get a grip, honestly.

You are also ignoring a very fundamental aspect about world first raiding… it doesn’t matter how good you are if someone else who is just a good plays a class that is 0.1% better. They min max in every. single. way. they can and go hundreds of millions in debt just to get a few BoEs for their raid team. Ofc they are going to pick what’s best, no matter how small the difference is. I mean cmon dude, the GM of the best guild in the world literally said “Outside of World First Raiding, Mistweaver is fine” and somehow the people progressing heroic or even Mythic think the spec is… not viable? what?

Why do you think what people play in the World First Race has any impact whatsoever on how those classes actually perform outside of that environment? In what world is “not brought for WFR = bad” true?

We wanna be more viable that’s all what we need.

Do you think a Mythic guild is somehow held back by having a Mistweaver? Do you think having a MW makes the boss harder or adds wipes to your count? Do you think you hit a wall by having a Mistweaver and suddenly you can’t get past X boss?

Also, other specs being better does not mean your spec is bad. Unholy DK is better than rogues rn… does that mean you never bring rogues either? is rogue not viable just because some other DPS specs are better?

100

Survivorship bias here :point_up_2:

101

the problem is you ignore everyone who doesn’t fit your definition of perfect player and dismiss the opinion of streamers running high keys/mythics because you think their perception of MW’s shortcomings only apply to high end content…
your argument that MW is hard to master is plain wrong. it’s counter intuitive, situational and lacks control to align the heals to the pattern of incoming damage- particularly for heavy multi-target damage where it’s unreliable and inefficient mana wise. we can sit here and pretend it’s rocket science but holy pala for example is ten times harder to play than MW and it’s neither underplayed or surrounded by complaints.
I suggest you take a look at the other healer classes, holy paladin in particular and try to put it’s current state in contrast with MW’s (d)evolution since it came out. from a developer’s perspective it’s interesting to see how it went through homogenization and simplification in an attempt for balancing and ended up in this clunky failed state where fistweaving and turret healing became two separate playstyles instead of augmenting each other like for HP.

and btw, some guy called baremetalxd said once the prideful affix is gone MW will disappear from M+

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but holy pala for example is ten times harder to play than MW

holy paladin is notoriously easy to play right now, even by holy paladin standards.

And mistweaver really is a lot harder to play now than it has been for a really long time. We’re no longer just a reactionary essence font bot. The spec is super punishing and it leads to a lot of players misplaying.

and btw, some guy called baremetalxd said once the prideful affix is gone MW will disappear from M+

I am familiar with Monkting, and I am very certain he was talking about pushing keys to the highest level like he is doing. I doubt he cares about 15s which somehow MW isn’t viable for either :^) Besides, he has no idea what seasonal affix we’ll get next season. Also, I have almost exclusively spoken about raids.

replied to the wrong person, sorry.

103

You say that but ignore that I’ve mentioned multiple times that I am in contact with people actually pushing for world ranks while playing Mistweaver. Nobody needs to be a perfect player, but the people whining about the spec are literally the bottom of the barrel players who struggle to get through heroic. If you somehow think a spec isn’t viable for heroics or early mythic bosses, then you’re an idiot. End of story.