My opinion, your opinion & constructive discussion

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
1

Heya,

After Blizzard posted their intentions to implement changes to the Classic Anniversary re-launch a couple of days ago, I’ve seen a lot of discussion back and forth from each camp. Most of it is healthy discussion, and some of it is, sadly, just a flamefest and trolling. With this thread I want to take a step back and encourage you to be more mature in how you voice your opinions, and how to approach people with different wishes than your own.

So what is a good way to advocate for your opinion? I want to link a couple posts from both sides of the debate which I think are excellent examples of this.

Here is one advocating FOR changes

Here is one advocating AGAINST changes

Here is one advocating for even MORE changes

I think these three threads stand out as good examples of how to approach a heated topic. There is no “[insert meaning] is WRONG and you are 13yo babies”, nor is there any “I want this therefore everyone else are 10IQ idiots”.

After all, World of Warcraft as a whole is Blizzard’s intellectual property, and none of us “own” the game. Even though I’m among those who did not wish these changes, and will probably skip this relaunch and stay on era for that reason, I recognize that Blizzard is ultimately the owner of this product. I do not expect them to cater to MY wishes when there are countless other opinions out there. I am also happy to see that Blizzard listens to their community and reads what we write on this forum, even though the pendulum didn’t swing in my direction this time around.

You are entitled to our opinion, as is everyone else.

Quoting the great philosopher Jagger, “you can’t always get what you want”.

Kind regards,
Your favourite ex-MVP, long time era player, and #NoChanges fanatic.

2

We’re past that stage.

Nobody wants to know what 18th century men felt the appropriate way for women was when they wanted to voice their opinions.

When dealing with unreasonable opponents, you don’t play by their rules, you play by yours.

Blizzard no longer exists, other than in a few people’s memory.

As you pointed out, though, none of us “own” the game, yet a very vocal minority does act like they do and the people who don’t want to waste their time and to struggle with nonsense in game (entertainment, right?) are “encroaching” on their “property”.

While I do try to stick to a certain level, I am one of the people who are done with being too polite with loud & angry credit card warriors.

3

I’d advocate for the opposite. By behaving mature and answering unreasonable opponents in a reasonable way, you win the ethos in the argument. By having a good rhetoric and attitude, the likelihood of you swaying people to your opinion increases.

4

Oh? Is that how the general population got rid of serfdom?

Is that how they got rid of kings and nobles?

Is that how citizens got the right to vote?

Is that how women got the right to vote?

Is that how racial equality came to be?

Is that how slavery was abolished?

They carefully voiced their opinions politely, I guess?

There is a TIIIIIINNYYYY minority of “#nochanges” “fanatics” - not saying you’re one of them. They are VERY vocal and gigatrolling the rest of the wow population.

Because the majority is somewhat polite and somewhat more quiet, they got stupid stuff imposed upon them - time after time.

This is what we’re dealing with here and quite a few people (myself included) are sick and tired of that. I’m not here to win a medal for being polite, I’m here to express my opinions in order to try to get certain improvements and when I come across people who are obviously unreasonable because they have a certain agenda, I won’t waste time to consider whether I’m polite enough.

5

The best way to advocate against something is to not act like your preferred feature or way of doing something in a game of all things is the only way to do it, and everything that’s contrary to how you want to do things is wrong. In addition, the people who are doing it are wrong, and the only way to possibly have fun is their way.

Which is how most people who don’t like the changes tend to frame their arguments, being entirely unable to get out of their own bubble or perceptions. The hubris in gatekeeping what classic means, something which hasn’t actually existed since 2004/5, for the most part, is staggering. Especially when Classic means so many different things to different players.

I understand frustration at not having a “fresh” experience, I sympathise, I think everyone should have options to play whatever flavours of WoW have already existed. In that sense, luckily Era exists - and does so for a reason. However, people against what are seemingly helpful changes for the health of this turn of the wheel, as it is now and going forward, seem to be overly a lot more hostile and unenjoyable to engage with or be near.

Personally, I do give you credit for keeping things level headed and reasonable, its just not a trait that’s common - and while I’m not stupid enough to think its restricted to one side, we deal with what we see.

6

Thank you, and thank you for your response, even if we disagree on the topic at hand. I do think that sadly, when people go online and are able to hide behind virtual avatars, they behave in ways they would not when meeting someone face-to-face. This might be kicking in open doors, as it’s a tendency we see all over the internet sadly.

I think it’s quite common, but the ones screaming the highest often gets the most attention. And thus, they feed the polarization of topics that are actually multifaceted and that would be interesting to debate in a mature way.

7

…and there is literally nothing else to add.

Glad they made the changes you hate so much. I don’t want fanatics of any kind in my game(s). You had your #nochange launch back in 2019. Now let us enjoy (some) #changes to this servers.

And yes. You are wrong and I am right.

PS: On what server will you play tomorrow? PvP or PvE?

8

But that’s not what this is about.

Take dual spec for example.

Everyone who played vanilla knows that certain specs (especially healers) would struggle to farm any of the consumables REQUIRED by high end raiding. It is what it is, you’re not going to be too efficient smiting mobs to death.

Yet a vocal minority “no, #nochanges, that ruins my game”.

Hey, how about don’t use it if you hate it so much? You really DON’T HAVE TO, so why does this bother you? Just…go to the trainer and respec every single time, so you don’t use it, if you don’t like it.

We both know the answer: “because I want OTHER people to have a hard time - I’m not going to be affected by that, because I play zugzug”.

According to your own post, you’re a #nochanges FANATIC.

How exactly does one negotiate with a FANATIC? How do you get a FANATIC to see your problems? Can a person with empathy be a FANATIC? Guess what kind of people lack empathy? Could it be a coincidence? Hmmm!

Explain to me - in reasonable and polite terms, as you advocate - why I should click 51 times (or more, if I misclick) and pay 50g everytime I finish a raid, in order to be able to go out there and herb without being two-shot as a healer - and then pay 50g again and click 51 more times in order to respec for the raid. Or perhaps do this 3-4-10 times when a friend needs me to heal an instance, but I just respecced. Go on, tell me how I can just farm 3-4 extra hours just to play with friends in a mmorpg and I’ll tell you exactly what kind of life you’ve got based on your perceived value of time.

Explain to me the advantages of having mail arrive to my alts with a 1h delay and how me getting my alt mail instantly ruins your experience.

Explain to me why I shouldn’t be allowed to put up corruption on boss if I play a warlock, so I can’t get a nightfall proc, but a warrior is supposed to get windfury procs and have deep wounds etc.

Explain to me why high end naxx raiding should include one druid, one hunter and 15 warriors - perhaps druids and hunters are only played by sub-humans, so 90% of them should be kept outside and this is merely just punishment.

Explain to me why 2-3 classes can solo entire instances, while the rest of them can barely kill one mob in 3 minutes or can’t even do that.

Go ahead, do that in reasonable and polite terms and show me the logs for that, I’ll show you mine.

9

And here we go, this way of presenting arguments is precisely what I wanted us all to avoid. I respect that your opinion is different to mine, and that is perfectly fine to be honest! Just give me the arguments, rather than stating “I’m wrong” because “no reasons”. I’d love to discuss this further.

It’s written with a little sarcasm, I of course accept that others want something I don’t want. Regarding the healer stuff - I play a well geared druid on era and I know the struggle! Still I prefer it to be that way, rather than having more “quality of life”. Classic to me is things taking time, being quirky and un-streamlined. It’s fine that you disagree, we can both agree to disagree to be honest.

I’ll be making a char to reserve my name on PvP, then I’ll go back to my era chars :slight_smile:

10

Good!

I will try to take yours then, since you will not play it.

You had your chance to discuss this, until you rage QQed for like … 3 days straight into the abyss and in the mean time, you raged as to how we are all wrong, including Blizzard and you are right, including the few of you who supports your…crusade.

So yea, but no. This will happen and they will not revert the changes, no matter how much you and alike rage on the forums.

PS: And no! You will play the hell out of the new server. I am 110% sure. Source? #Trustmebro

11

It’s got NOTHING to do with things taking time.

In my early days of classic, I too played a resto druid - I still have it cloned, in fact.

So there we are on firemaw and half of my toolkit is unusable, we’re 3 druids in the raid and I can’t rejuv, I can’t regrowth (I hope I don’t need to explain why)

There I am on my warlock and I can’t put up corruption or coa or siphon life (sm/ruin), but of course, not only CAN I put up CoR, it’s DEMANDED of me - almost at virtual gunpoint.

How about we take out 2/3 of a warrior’s toolkit and see how they fare?

That’s amazing, but you’ve avoided explaining any of the things I asked you to explain, pretending not to see them, as the #nochanges crowd always does.

…of course, some of them put on sheep’s clothing and ask for polite conversations. As long as you don’t ask (for) anything they don’t like.

yessir master, of course.

You know what, I could continue.

How about we make half the bosses in MC and BWL immune to physical damage, like they’re immune to fire? Let’s see what happens - if it’s fine for mages, it should be fine for warriors, hunters and rogues, right? If it’s fine for mages - #nochanges - it should be fine for other classes too, right?

A lot of things in vanilla (and then classic) are and were broken and we all know that, just like we know they should(have) be(en) fixed. Some due to technological limitations present two decades ago, some due to wow being initially designed by sweatlords, for no-life sweatlords. But they’re gone - and they won’t be missed.

Those things weren’t fixed, because muh #nochanges. Another way of saying “I learned things like a monkey in 2010 because I was too dumb to understand them in 2005 and if anything changes, I don’t know what’s gonna happen to me, because I can’t adapt to anything and I’m scared things will be worse for me, what if God forbid I end up on equal footing with other players who are paying as much as I am, but not getting a pleasant experience???”.

That’s what this is about and it’s what it has always been about.

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12

omg i feel famous thx

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