Yes. People can choose to play efficiently and premade, or they can choose not to.
No, it isn’t. It’s merely an expression that I think you’re actually pretty stupid.
And they’d be able to either pug as “normal”.
What you suggested isn’t how things work. You’re commenting on how you WANT things to work. You’re not considering how people will respond.
WoW players aren’t actually sheep, you can’t just lead them somewhere and say “play like this”.
Exactly
I guess you are not used to arguing someone that attack the arguments and not the person, so you have to resort to minor provocations, and now finally ‘stupid’
Again exactly.
and what you suggested isnt how things work either according to what you want the game to be.
im commenting on what i see as a problem, how you respond to that is all up to you.
You’re not attacking my arguments, you’re completely ignoring them. But yes, you can view the entirity of this thread and see that I am indeed used to people attacking me rather than my argument.
Puggers are an aggressive bunch.
What I suggested is exactly how things work.
I told you that private servers already tried “premade vs premade only” queues. Nostalrius did it, the result was that only a small majority of premades could compete for honor, and solo queues were rampart with AFKers and leechers.
Here’s an old forum thread, incase you feel like reading it:
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=30232&sid=645a84aa8af8473f4c5c3724ac3913b1
Your commenting on what you see as a problem whilst only offering a solution that creates another problem.
You expect others to adapt to the new problem when you simply can’t adapt to your current “problem”.
No i dont, i could easily switch that around and say that you ignore what i have to say.
And that is exactly what i said, you are not used to people NOT attacking YOU.
I bet the honor gain in premades was not raised or not raised enough, otherwise i cant see how that would happen.
I dont see how my solution creates another problem that isnt easily fixed by honorgain from premades
If any new problem should arise, then it should ofcourse be analyzed why it happened.
but if more premades should go pug instead, then it wont be for reaching high ranks.
Increased honor gain on premades would have made the problem worse. Seperating queues gave players an option to just AFK, reducing the pool of people in the premade queue. The “casual trade chat premaders” basically disbanded and AFK’d in the solo queue.
The reduction of people in the queue meant that only the top players were gaining honor. If premade honor was increased, the top players would be earning even more honor and the bottom players wouldn’t.
The bottom players would then be better off just AFK leeching in the solo queue, which is exactly what they did. If you increase the honor gains of premades further, you simply make it impossible for solo players, and casual premades, to compete with hardcore premades.
The difference now tohugh, is that it would be amplified. Private servers only had one server to manage, they could easily track and punish leechers. That’s not possible here, due to how many people ar ein cross-realm battlegrounds.
I’ve just explained it.
I’ve already explained it, your method was already tested. It didn’t work the way you want it to, and made battlegrounds worse for everybody.
The solution is simple, suck it up and join a casual premade.
I read everything that you’ve said, it’s just a repeated circle. The circle is going to continue until you accept what you are told.
? premades dont go afk, and when a pug meet a premade, they ‘all’ go afk and wait to lose, so whats the difference in afk’ers?
there is always room for players in ranks, depend on how many is in the top, so i guess it would be as i think, premades getting high ranks pug’s getting lower ranks.
players afk either way, its not because of the premades getting more honor that changes that.
And i explained how i think increasing honor gain for premades do not make a new problem.
But you still havent said anything about honor gains in premades also was done in that private server.
no, the solution is to fix premades stomping pug’s somehow, its not just here in the EU that have many threads about that problem, its also in the US forums.
So it is a real problem for many.
No, instead I told you about how the honor gains would have made the problem worse, not better.
The solution to that is simple, puggers play properly in premades, instead of in random groups consisting of 6 warriors, 3 rogues and a warlock and then explecting to be able to compete.
Just because there’s threads on it doesn’t mean that it’s a problem.
The problem is that the thread creators are playing the wrong game.
And again, what you think is wrong. There’s no room for “thinks” and uneducated guesses when it comes to calculation.
I dont see how it would make the problem worse, solo queue’rs would be happy, premades would gain more honor (im trying to read the link you gave me) but nothing so far that said its right or wrong, some have different views there too.
That is your solution which i believe will make more quit those bg’s and is then not a really good solution.
Many threads, not just a few here and there, that imo looks like a bigger problem than when it is 1 or 2 threads about a few issues.
No the thread creators are not playing the wrong game, the game back in vanilla did not have this problem in this scale as it is today.
I dont see you put up any calculations except what you think is going to happen, if the honor gain havent been tried before, you dont know what will happen, you can ofcourse assume what could happen, and if something bad happens, blizzard should fix that as well.
No, they wouldn’t. Solo queuers would cry that they have AFKers and leechers in their BG. No doubt they’d say something along the lines of “this isn’t like Vanilla at all!”
There is no “right” or “wrong”, there is only action and consequence.
People are going to quit regardless, that isn’t an important factor. There is no “everything is perfect and everyone is happy” solution.
This isn’t Vanilla
The playerbase are older and more experienced, you can’t recreate Vanilla. That isn’t an opinion, it is a fact. Only a fool would try and dispute that sentence.
Furthermore, everybody has a different view of Vanilla, fore it wasn’t one set thing like Classic. Vanilla had a 2 year lifespan where each phase was different. Your view and experience of Vanilla was vastly different to somebody else’s.
I put what did happen. Not what I will think is going to happen.
That’s the difference between us both.
On every sport you can think of - competition is only real +fun if the contest has fair grounds (both teams are evenly formed, thus has equal chances of winning and must rely on skill), sports make no sense if determinate team always win cause it obviously have huge advantages, it becomes some weirdo ego trip.
WoW PvP clearly tries to include every player style into BGs by allowing us to solo queue and also as a group. You can’t argue that BG’s are meant for group only. All arguments that go that way are silly. However we’re living this sad moment cause they didnt refine their matchmaker enough, back then they didnt even know if PvP was gonna be a thing. Now they do, so I don’t get why they dont wanna make the journey for ranks fun and fair.
When a full premade team beats a full random team, thats meaningless, nobody have fun, there’s no challenge to it, there’s no reason for that match to even exist. Groups of players who want to take BG’s to the next level should be allowed to fight challenging matches up to their level. Against equally formed teams…
PvP is supposed to be fun, however nobody can have fun by losing 10 times in a row cause of a design flaw.
Except you left out honor gain and what impact that would have on premades / pug’s
Yes they would, i know i would, if there is afk’ers then they can be reported, and estimating the opposite pug team also have afk’ers makes it average out.
there is a better solution vs a worse solution, that is what i call right and wrong solutions.
So if its not make everyone happy solution, then why are you against it, if you dont think any solution makes everyone happy, i think my solution will make bg’s better and more will start pugging again.
So the #nochanges have nothing to do with how the game is played anymore… ok thats fine.
but i dont see why a problem like premades GY camping pugs should not be fixed just because ‘this isnt vanilla’
Pretty much this, PvP is meant to be fun…
Everyone who goes for “Honor per hour” over fun has clearly forgotten this.
No, I didn’t. I told you that increasing the honor gain would simply increase the cap between the elite and the casual; making it even more difficult for casuals to keep up; whether they premade or not.
Simple economics.
So half of the game being AFK is close to your precious “vanilla” experience? And no, keeping track of all the people AFKing in battlegrounds isn’t an easy task. Hell, Blizzard can’t even keep track of all the botters.
So by your own definition, your solution is wrong.
Because then you’re changing the game for absolutely nothing. You’ll make a bunch of forum crybabies happen at the cost of screwing current players over. That’s what I called “kicking the can down the road”.
Furthermore, the current crybabies will then just start crying about all the AFKers in their little “this is definitely a vanilla experience” queue.
It doesn’t matter how many times you say that, I’ve shown you that you’re wrong.
Exactly. #nochanges was supposed to be about recreation and preservation, not trying to adapt an old game to appease new players.
It can’t be fixed because you’ll be creating a new problem. The current problem: premades in battlegrounds, can be fixed by joining a premade and playing properly.
The problem that your solution created: AFKers and leechers in solo queue and casual players not being able to come anywhere close to competing for honor with the elitists, doesn’t have a simple fix.
People go for honor per hour for the rewards. For some people, long grinds for rewards are actually fun.
Once AQ and Naxx are out, PVP gear is no longer BiS. Once it’s no longer BiS, the reward won’t be worth the grind to most. Once that happens, you’ll get more people in BGs that are playing just for the run of it.
Just wait it out, that’s all you have to do.
So fun waiting out months and months being able to not play BG without having to organise a premade, lmao.
Also, you’re the person with the most threads complaining about AV premades. Now you tell others to stop crying. Interesting.
Yeah go **** yourself dude, having only one of two factions being able to set up a 40 man AV premade was the problem in that case and you know it, but nice strawman attempt.
Imagine having to wait years and years for official Blizzard Classic and then having people try to ruin it because they’re afraid of organised PVP.
i wanted to play premades with my 39 friends as well!
too bad my faction as a whole weren’t able to do that, and this luxury were only afforded by the opposite faction huh 
in case you are autistic and can’t detect sarcasm, what i am telling you is that you are retarded to think your version of AV premade-for-alliance-only was fair game.
but keep on being intellectually dishonest, in your pretend world where everything was fair the way it used to be.
i thrive on people like you 
P.S funny how you are suddenly losing each and every AV now and all these alliance threads about “horde map bias in AV” has started to pop up since your faction-specific premades are now a thing of the past 
i’ll see you in AV, loser 
If I wanted organised PvP, I’d go to retail ranked PvP?
Having to play every BG with an organised group is just stupid though.
If you wanted a game with solo pvp and seperate queues, you’d play league of legends. Or literally any MOBA.
And you dont have to play every game with an organised group, most premades are just tradechat premades. Some dont use discord, most dont use consumables. They basically form together so their team isn’t 6 warriors, 1 mage and 3 rogues.
So , in that logic . AV premade was to be expected in classic too , because AV premade was a thing i TBC . Do your own research via google , wow av premade 2006. And youll see many people making them too in 2008 via AV perform enabler addon from both factions . 
. So , since people wanted #NoChanges , AV premade shouldve stayed because classic wow is a " recreation " of the game … no ?