That is your opinion, and i strongly disagree with it. How PvP was supposed to work back in the early 2000 and how it is functioning right now are two completely different things.
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If you want to win a battle where coordination, strategy and execution are needed then the best way is via premades.
You can tell yourself whatever makes you able to sleep at night but things are not like this.
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I don’t need to tell myself anything, it’s clear for everyone to see in-game how horrible the experience is in AB/WSG for the avg player, thus why the forums are filled with complaints and people will start leaving unless Blizzard does something about it.
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Last time they catered to requests that went against the way the game had to be played we ended up with Cata, WoD and now even BlizzVision was forced to get back to classic.
+1
Agree man without pugs classic pvp will be ghostown. 5 player join can solve this?
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I see that argument (raiding PvE) often. Do hardcore PvE guilds, make PvE content impossible for pug raids? Like premades make ranking or even playing for pugs unbearable.
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That argument of yours is nonesense though, there is no competition in PvE. Success comes from being able to clear the raid and that is the “equivalent” of winning a BG. To do so you need a group that can coordinate and execute while also having a leader that can adapt the strategy to the group at hand.
I thought you brought the AQ (PvE) example here. You said “should people complain, that they can’t do AQ in pugs?"
In PvE you are not competing against other people/faction. You could clear Naxxramas, and that in any way would affect other people only clearing UBRS. You don’t affect other people having fun and obtain rewards.
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I probably didn’t make myself clear. You are posing the PvE argument in a way that doens’t make sense because I was comparing having success in PvP and having success in PvE.
- For PvP, success = winning the BG
- For PvE, success = clearing the Raid
Premades effect on PuGs is to either making it hard for them to win or just stomping them and since Premades are the way ppl should play to achieve high ranks, the situation can be compared to Raid tiers in terms of difficulty where a PuG Vs PuG can be compared to 5 men dungeons while the high end rank 13-14 Premade can be the same as Naxx. Now, if you want to clear (or even have a chance at surviving) Naxx you need to have ppl with not only the right gear but also well focused and able to coordinate and follow a strategy that might even change midfight if things go south.
The only thing I can pass as unfair is that you don’t know which “Raid Tier” you are going to enter with BGs. Yet again you can’t punish ppl for playing the game as it should be.
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I didn’t find your argument valid because in PvE there is no interaction between different raids. In PvP any big advantage of one team, makes the opponent feel hopeless. Is it fair or desirable? That’s our main question, and thats what we are arguing for.
Its not an easy subject. I also agree that we should push people to be more social, because thats one main aspect of Vanilla, compared to retail. Supposedly, because I stopped in WotLK or Cataclysm (don’t even remember). But isn’t this situation pushing people to quit? Casual players, that want to play couple of hours after kids are sleeping (just an example). Players that are fed up with “Classic is not for you, play retail”.
As someone already said in one of these threads "Vanilla was for everyone. Classic is not” (or something like that).
Don’t do it in a way that punish organized people. Find a formula. Like honor bonus, or ranking over rank 10 very hard for solo players. Make it fair for both sides.
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To be fair, most threads in this forum are about asking for changes to the game.
He can’t make an arguement. Everytime his point of view is smashed he just call people ignorant.
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also, idk why people go ahead and discuss with beware, and respond to his posts. he is an obvious blizz fanboy that will defend them to the end of the world without actually making proper arguments.
now to respond to the point the op made, separate queues for premades/pugs would make this game so much better, CONSIDERING that blizz is already doing bad changes that make this game un-vanilla like, a good change would be nice for a change
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His point was very clear:
Another topic among god knows how many about this subject. Most of us are aware of the situation and I bet my 2 dollar so is Blizzard. Finding a solution that wont wreck everyones fun might not be as easy as people on this forum think it is and with the current situation around the world right now it might take even longer.
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We’ve known this was going to be a feature for 15 years. It took you 15 years to work up the courage to make this post?..
Props to you for finally getting it done. Congratulations.
Go to retail.
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Yet he got six times as many likes as u did.
You know what’s the funny part?
All the players who premade and play vs pugs have 0 skill. They think they’re good at the game, but they’re not.
I’ve beaten 99% of rank 12+ on my realm flawlessly and I’m rank 4 Senior Sergeant.
They can only win with premade, discord, buffs, consumables, potions but when you catch them alone in World PvP, man I’ve never seen so many bad players in my life with rank 12+.
They premade because they are weak and their skill at the game is laughable in 1v1 and 1v2.
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I respect the effort and time you’re putting in writing everything down but again, premades are a huge problem for people who want to pug battlegrounds and have a normal game.
The issue is Blizzard is loosing subs = money due to this.
52 members of my EX guild quit the game because of this issue, again, I repeat, 52 said on spot “I hate premades and I just want to have a casual 4-5 battlegrounds vs pugs not get corpse camped by no lifers”
Sorry mate, these are hard facts and it broke my heart seeing so many friends quit the game because of unskilled players who premade for honor and feed on pug players.
I didn’t quit because I enjoy owning rank 12+ players in World PvP and /rofl /laugh at them and their skill, I mean no skill.
Again, this is a hard and 100% true fact, 95% of those who got their rank by premade are just very bad at PvP in general or 1v1.
In Classic WoW rank doesn’t prove anything since you got it by beating players with no gear, discord, full consumable and pots.
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Can´t agree more. On the one side it is a good laugh when you catching em in a 1vs1 without 3 pocket healers in their back and recognize how bad they are. On the other side i could cry that those pleps are all high ranked and you still have no change in a BG because of all the stuff you mentioned.
That is pretty much the only thing that sucks in Classic. That the pvp ranking system has absolutely nothing to do with skill.
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No, they premade because it’s the most efficient honor farm. Skill is utterly irrelevant and redundant.
True, which is why the ranking system was replaced with TBC’s Arena and Rating system.
And of those 52, none of them said “hey lets form 5 premades”?
A popular opinion doesn’t mean a correct opinion. Especially in a place like this, where people literally come to complain.