Why do you say that like it’s my fault? I never asked for that. I never asked for any change except fixing new exploits unique for Classic. You are just proving my point anyway. I am against changes because people like you will use any change as an argument to add more changes.
I’ve noticed a pattern with you, with that you never address the entirety of a persons post. Only a tiny snippet of it.
Point where i said it’s your fault? All i am doing is expressing an alternative view point. Shocking, i know.
Please address my actual post than make unsupported predictions about my motivations and ‘end goal’.
What to know my motivation? Even though i’ve spelt it out many times now. The end goal is fun. Some peeps just wanna join a few games, not get mushed into the graveyard and ghost. You don’t even entertain the idea of testing it out on the PTRs even though that kinda is the point of the test realms.
Rest assured that some of us are rather conservative but understand that nothing ever stays the same. This WoW classic is a very different beast to what it originally was those 15 years ago. People have already pointed this out with cross realms pvp, server/instance layering, and other changes like altering the honour gains in AV. Some changes are needed. This is one such change i believe needs to happen. Or at least be explored both as a discussion and on the PTR’s.
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Yes I did.
You want to add custom changes to Classic.
Your whole argument is that there are changes in Classic. And just because there are changes in classic, your demand for your change is now valid.
Right?
My argument is that we should never add changes because those changes will be used as an argument to add more changes. Just like you are doing.
No you didn’t
You didn’t address this
and then you didn’t address this
You ascribed my motivations as if you can read minds accross the internet. You are approaching the discussion in bad faith.
I get that your argument boils down to the slippery slope argument, and it has merits in some ways. But we evidence that the game was different from day one of WoW classic. So the #nochanges was dead from day 1.
And again, am i really demanding it? I’m giving the suggestion a fair shake, a chance to be tested on PTR’s and discussed. The community is now discussing it’s frustration with the constant premades and the demoralising effect it is having, players giving up, players afk/hiding, players not even trying from the get go, playing making comments such as ‘just let them win’, ‘don’t release’, ‘eugh premade’, and players being completely alienated from an aspect of a game. I am recognising this pattern and downward trend.
So yes, i do want a change. A single change. Not a whole slew of changes as you suggest. A single change for all players to get a fair crack at some PVP with all battlegrounds. Is that so bad? I would like to see this change, i have given my explanation and reasoning. I would at least like to see it discussed (which we are doing) and have the concept tested on the PTRs. And it appears many others too want this.
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Lol just make a group and win yourself. Network a little and maybe you also can be the badass players winning every BG.
It’s not that most people are incapable of making a premade, it’s that for most people it requires a lot of time to do that and also a lot of people like myself enjoy the randoms v randoms aspect of PVP, there is almost no casual PVP going on in this game right now, that is an issue considering most players are casual players.
Alterac Valley is a 40vs40 BG designed to be played as pug vs pug.
If you don’t have time to form a group then that’s on you, not the rest of us that wants to have a good setup in warsong and arathi.
Time and effort = results in classic
Ok, so you have misunderstood why I only quote a small part of a post.
I do this so that he person I quote will get a notification. They see what post I am answering, and the entire post is always visible when you click the Arrow on the quote box. That was I don’t need to cluster the forum and quote all the text.
Your argument is very small and easy to understand and I have addressed that many times. So I can just pick out the new and important things. People are already complaining that I write the same thing over and over.
Right now, anyone can click the arrow in the quote box and see your whole post, and click the arrow again and follow the whole discussion between you and me, as long as a part of the discussion is quoted. No need to quote it all or to address everything over and over.
But i do. I premade from time to time, on Friday i was in a premade with our servers top ranking players. But alas, i don’t want to premade 100% of the time. There are, believe it or not, other players who don’t premade 100% of the time or at all. But still want to enjoy a bit of PVP. Not be someone elses farming statistic 9 out of 10 games. Ghosting at GY’s is not fun. A community becoming demoralised after repeated experience of ghosting at GY’s and being farmed is not what people want to play.
The same with your argument. From what i get from reading your posts is you want a blanket nochanges becuase any change will justify further changes gradually turning the game into the frankenstein of it’s former self.
Our Argument is, that some change can be beneficial. I recognise there can be other consequences from changes. We have listed the reasons why we believe this change is something to consider, maybe even try out. We have listed why the current state of affairs is grinding away at the community, match by match, day by day. I’ve been pvping quite some time and as someone that experiences both the premade and the random, speaking with guildies, and reading from others on these forums, am recognising that people are getting fed up with the over abundance of premades domineering at the scale of which it is now.
The thing is, no one ever talks about the negative aspects.
How would a new queue system affect bots and afk leechers?
How would it affect ranking in a grind based pvp system?
Should you get the same honor and rep?
And also, if you open the door for custom changes. Do you want to know what my opinion is, what change I would like to see? I would prefer if they banned the option to solo queue for battlegrounds and only allow raid premades. That would remove all ranking bots and afk leechers. It would be 100% fair and bring the community together more on the realms.
You see, this is why I am against changes. We will most likely not like most of them. If we did, we would probably like retail already…
Also keep in mind that it’s Blizzard that would create this new system you ask for. They would most likely make it feel really pointless and frustrating somehow. They would probably lock the honor at rank 6 and rep and honor or something.
The reason you can’t change it is sinple: the honor system is not built with this in mind.
No more arguments are needed.
You still have to show us how serverwide queues without battlegroups, disabled wsg portals, legion raid frames, 10x bigger seevers, a clock and layering are recreating 2006 World of Warcraft. Classic is clearly not a recreation of 2006 World of Warcraft.
Stop using that argument or fix your forum bot. Spamming the same false crap 24/7 gets weird.
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Bodiesan is the person that keeps saying “Whenever we get one change, people use that as an excuse to demand more”.
You’re just proving his argument right.
Premade vs premade que will result in alot of win trading kind of things, because playing long tight games is not efficient for honor farming. Therefore they will go like first cap wins kind of deal that premades already doing alot when facing each other. Or people will send their best duelers mid and whoever wins gets three free caps. Stuff like that will happen for sure.
He only has the ‘muh 2006 recreation’ argument but it wont work until he shows us how all the changes Blizzard made are recreating vanilla.
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No, he says that changes are bad and that people use changes as an excuse to ask for more bad changes.
And here you are; asking for more bad changes.
I didn’t ask for anything. I just debunked the argument you Blizzbots spam 24/7.
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You haven’t debunked an argument; you literally proved his point. Your side of the argument would have done better without your contribution.
I never made an argument or defended one. I just debunked the ‘muh 2006 muh recreation’ argument with a simple question your forum bot can’t answer and now the anti premade queue position is backed up by nothing. I will probably still get an automized answer from your forum bot tho.
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Bodiesan: “Changes are bad, whenever we get a change somebody else uses that as an excuse to justify the change that they want”
Rutaler: “We already have changes, so gief more changes”
Also Rutaler: “lol me debunk argument”.