Residuum & Gearing issue and why it's totally unfair to PvP players


(Abië) #1

So not only PvP players get absolutely ignored by the current system, it takes way longer to gear as well.

Residuum could have been an amazing band aid to the gearing system for PvP players: Getting residuum through the PvP weekly cache would make the PvP community a lot less upset.

Just a bit of context: The PvP players are in uproar about gearing because blizzard removed and refuse to re-implement vendors. PvP players think arena/RBGs should be more about who has the most skill and who has the best strategy.

This is why in legion we had PvP templates. To put everyone on a equal level in PvP.

Blizzard team in BFA, not only removed PvP templates but they also nerfed PvP gear drops in rated PvP. Winning as much as a 50 3v3 will net you less gear than spamming mythic+ or clearing a raid even tho it takes more time.

Compare to PvE where when you enter an m+ or a raid, if you have more gear or a good strat or if you are playing easier difficulties, then you are pretty much guaranteed kills and thus loot; In PvP, there is no set strategy, the there is no set gear that will give you a victory and arenas or RBGs are never the same because you are not fighting AIs with timers.

Because of that gearing matters much more in PvP. When you enter a raid, not only you play the difficulty suited for your needs in gear and skill but also you have more chances of getting a guaranteed upgrade (you know what items drop from a boss, you can coin a specific boss etc).

In PvP, you queue for an arena and only get gear and rating if you win. Losing is much more punishing than in PvE because you lose rating that otherwise would award you better gear. You also fight people of different skill level. They might be better or worse but there’s no certain way of knowing compared to PvE.

It becomes really frustrating when you realise that your Weekly cache is also way worse compared to PvE m+. In m+, passing a +10 will grant you a the gear. You don’t even need to pass it on time. You will still get the gear associated to the key level in your chest.
In PvP, losing doesn’t progress your conquest bar. Having a higher rating is considerably more difficult than passing a +10 because not only you are not playing against AI, but you need to WIN against them. (class design matters a lot here too since some classes get hard countered by others)

PvP gearing is insanely RNG and no progres has been made to help this. Devs keep telling the community to diversify their activities but some rated 1600 shouldn’t have to PvE to have a shot at reaching 1800 or 2000 (the player would need to beat players significantly better than them which requires a lot of practice.)

Residuum would have been a good answer where getting some from your chest to be able to target high ilvl gear at the residuum vendor with the number increasing with rating like it increases with key level.
It would make PvP a lot less frustrating.
In PvE, there is always a winner. You can retry as much as you want and at one point you will get it. For your weekly cache, just trying and kill every boss not even on time will grant you gear.

In pvp, there is always a losing team. You fight random opponents, on random maps, and you get random gear that drops less than in PvE.

Let’s compare a team of 5 in a m+10 and a team of 3 in Arena PvP at 2000 rating. The m+ team cant kill the bosses in time and deplet the key. They still get the gear and go on with their day.
The team of 3 in arena loses a game: it doesn’t progress their conquest bar, they get no chance at any loot, it decrease their rating which might mean they get less valuable loot later on.
An absolutely awful scenario for the PvP group.

Residuum would go a long way to provide a band aid to fix this (get at least being able to target gear like PvErs without having to do content you might not enjoy).

TLDR: Put Residuum in the weekly PvP chest.


2400 rating vs. Mythic +10
Cynical gearing system = dead PvP
#2

This, whoever forgot to add TR to BOTH weekly chests should be fired on a spot …

Its still only for azerite pieces but it would be better than nothing …


#3

Massive respect for writing that block of test.
You are right, residium needs to be in the weekly chest ASAP. Also a whole PVP overhaul wouldn’t hurt as well.


#4

no reason to not hotfix it if you ask me.


#5

And imagine being a pve player forced into warmode and pvp to get some of the best essences available, especially alliance side where winning a bg requires either a miracle, a total crash of every horde opponent pc and/or some nukes from north korea.

Their not going to fix this because they don’t want to. Their clear goal is force people playing both world to keep the queues resonably fast and full (and the subs active for longer).


#6

Or maybe we could have pvp vendors back with its own currency. Like how conquest and honor used to be a currency

Current honor is pretty much pointless, during legion you atleast earned some gold with each honor level. now you need to grind 10 levels and hope you get something


(Abië) #7

There is a massive difference between farming essences and farming 16/17 slots of gear.

Im not saying the essence farm isnt a grind. But comparing the amount of farm PvE players have to do in PvP is ridiculous compared to the amount of grind PvP players have to do in PvE.

Leveling your neck is impossible in PvP. You gain close to nothing by again winning an arena or RBG. I can gain more azerite by doing World quests.

A few essences In PvP are good for PvE players. Conflict and strike & the blood one. The requirement for those are what ? Completing your chest for the week ? Winning 1 battleground ? Joining a group farming horde kills in azshara with warmode on ?

PvP players not only need to increase their neck level through PvE, they need to do mythic+ and raid to be viable in PvP. PvP players have to play main PvE content to get gear whereas PvE players don’t have to wet their feet into rated PvP at least more than once or twice.

To get high level gear in PvP, you need a higher rating. To get that higher rating you need to beat better and more geared opponents. But you will never gain a better gear that would help you through PvP if you dont gain that rating.

Residuum would help PvP players get gear and make the awful gearing experience a lot more manageable. PvP casuals shouldnt have to PvE to get a “shot” at beating other players because learning to PvP takes an equal amount of time to learning how to work in a raid. And comparing this, to PvE players farming a few essences is silly especially since you only need the best essences to clear the hardest raid difficulties whereas a PvP arena can be decided at the starting entrance by ilvl.

@oldmanbarry I agree but blizzard has created a system where gear vendors like we used to have in the past wouldn’t work well (Titanforging crap etc).

I also want gear vendors in PvP with currencies like conquest and honor. But with legion and now BFA, its clear they have no intention of doing that and i prefer saving my time trying to give ideas and feedback that might be possible to hotfix now rather than wait another expac.


#8

Requirements are much higher. Like 50k honor gained in bg. If you’re a relatively new alliance player, the amount of time needed to grind that is way higher than any other grind i can think of.


(Abië) #9

Blood of the enemy rank 3 is litteraly min maxing at its finest. 25% crit for 5 seconds, consumes at 30 stacks instead of 40.

If you want to push your dps to the limit for raid progression or MDI, i could see someone farming this. A PvE casual will never farm this essence because the benefits arent worth.

Compared again to PvP, PvP players dont have a choice at farming PvE essences and PvE gear. PvE players have other essences just a good or a little worse than BotE whereas to compete in PvP, you OBVIOUSLY need good gear. Also certain classes are straight up bad in pvp without the right stats.

Which comes back to what i propose: adding residuum in Weekly pvp chest.


#10

It seems completely bonkers that they didn’t add it. Or deliberate as pvp doesn’t conform to what whoever decides current game content for every player should be. Just hit my weekly conq cap and can’t wait to be able to open the chest for another bit of gear that will get scrapped as it’s worse than what I already have.


(Punyelf) #11

+1

/10char


(Nexintus) #12

They should add it.
Also bg essence honor requirement should be halved at least. Arena players dont like to grind it either…


(Søssky) #13

They should but then it should be an either or type situation. It’s not hard to do a +10 every week so if you got 17k+ from both PvPers would be swimming in residuum which would kinda be fair given how shït it is to gear up doing only pvp but blizz just needs to put a vendor back in and stop screwing around and it wouldn’t be a problem in the first place.


(Abië) #14

I honestly don’t mind a system where you can only get residuum from one of the chest (if you open your m+ chest and get residuum, you cant residuum from the pvp chest for this week).

PvE players wouldnt lose anything and PvP players would gain without breaking the balance of the residuum system.


(Søssky) #15

Yeah, with how PvP titles work in BfA where you get them as you hit the rating milestone a residuum system with a rating equivalent to a mythic keystone would fit in seamlessly and if you did a 12 key but your pvp rating was just a 10 you could get the remaining residuum from the mythic chest. Seems like a no brainer to me.


#16

I’m not even a PVP player, but even I can see the wisdom in this. You’re basically PVPing for transmog sets atm.


(Abië) #17

Prettg sure there was complains about old pvp set from BFA S1 not available at vendors like before so even this isn’t done very well.

Add residuum to the PvP weekly chest !


#18

Ion : PvP feedback OMEGALUL … Here , take some pet battles instead .


(Abië) #19

Wish PvP feedback was at least read by blizzard but hey i like pet battles too xd


(Alexima) #20

It takes forever to gear up for everyone.

The one and only reliable source of fast gearing is mythic+ dude. Nothing else. So don’t think that other types of pve get anything good either.