I’m just gonna share what I’ve been doing for 15 years in all the groups I’m in.
You come across a locked chest, you ask in the group if someone is capable of opening it (i.e. rogue with high enough skill, blacksmith with skeleton key or engineer).
If we as a group have the opportunity to open the chest, we all roll on getting the content inside. The argument is that you as a solo rogue would not have been able to reach the chest or open it by yourself, therefore you have no more right to the content than the rest of the group, regardless of your lock picking skill.
Again, nope.
There’s no inconsistency. You’re just not accepting the fundamental difference between a class specific skill and a profession, and assuming that all benefits from all professions are equal and no profession benefits are on par with class specific benefits. They’re not.
Cables cost me nothing to use. Keys and charges do.
Mining and herbalism cost gold to level up. Lockpicking doesn’t.
Mines and herbs are generally a few silver. Chests can contain literally hundreds of gold worth of items.
You didn’t answer, but I’m assuming you don’t refuse to cast Arcane Int on others in your group, or that other classes should refuse to use their class specific perks. So why should rogues be any different? If I pet tank a boss, does that make all the loot mine? Do you demand all loot anytime you have to use Sheep? Do you pay a fee every time a healer rezzes you?
So the difference is literally the 7 or so gold that mining costs to train? If lock picking would cost 7 gold this would flip the whole argument then and you would say that Rogues ought to get the contents of the chest?
The chests are generally worthless. On average probably a little over 1 gold. I would bet that a rich thorium vein is actually higher in value on average. But this argument is about being selfish. You feel entitled to the chest because it can be worth more to you.
No but there is no fundamental reason why you ought not charge for buffs. The only reason it won’t work out for you is because your competition is offering the buffs for free.
Oy vey…
No, the fundamental difference is that professions, and try to pay attention to this bit, are not class specific skills.
THAT is why claiming lockpicking is just like mining or herbalism is flawed from the start.
The reason you don’t pay for lockpicking in groups is because, again, it’s class specific and costs nothing. Charges and keys are not and do cost.
No, the reason you don’t charge for buffs is because it’s part of what the class brings to the group. Same as summoning, same as resurrections, same as pet tanking, same as CC, same as lockpicking.
And instead of constantly trying to shift the goal post, how about actually answering the simple questions you keep avoiding?
Do I have first rights to any loot if I pet tank a boss?
Do you demand all loot when you Sheep?
Do you pay a fee every time you’re rezzed?
In a world where everyone want cleave runs and pretty much bans certain classes, i would not be so greedy with the 1 and only reason i would ever take a rogue, you should be happy you could get into a group tbh
The answer to all of these is the same: You have no right to anything, not even your character or your whole account. It comes down to what the other players are willing to accept when it comes to paying for the services that you provide. If they are willing to let you get all the loot for tanking then sure, go for it.
Yes I would agree with that. You can have the contents of a chest if you can open it and you don’t trade it away. No one has a right to any of it but the Rogue obviously has access while other classes do not as easily. Just the same as a miner has access to a node but no one has a right to the node. The group can decide to deny that access or demand a roll as payment for granting access.
What you are trying to do is arbitrarily define services in a way that benefits you the most. Obviously you want access to the contents of those chests since you are not playing a Rogue. So you define lockpicking in such a way that you are entitled to profits from it.
Not even close, buddy.
Your sole argument for rogues having prio on locked chest is “I bring this feature to the group, so only I should benefit from it!”. And as I’ve explained in oh-so-many ways, that’s not how groups work. You’re making a special exception for rogues, but dismissing every other class specific skill, because it fits your opinion.
I honestly don’t care about chests or herbs and ores. None of them are gonna make any significant difference to me. Like I said earlier: If you don’t want to open locked chests for group members, you don’t have to. Simple as that. But don’t pretend you’re not trying to justify being an a-hat.
I’ve been part of groups where we did that. It’s no big deal. Some professions that don’t rely on herbs or ores might need a few of whatever node popped up. Or some just want absolutely everything that someone doesn’t need as an upgrade rolled for.
Most just don’t care, because the profit is rarely anything more than a few silver.
My disagreement is with the justifications that you and others have used in this case. That you arbitrarily classify things to suit your argument. Because it suits your argument that class abilities be fundamentally different from professions you classify them as such. You don’t justify it with anything more than the 7 or so gold that the profession costs.
Personally as a Rogue I never argue this. I do whatever the group wishes and I ask before opening a chest. It’s just not worth the drama for the 1g or so. That however does not mean that I accept that there is some philosophical reason why I should not require that only people who can open the chest should roll for it.
Which confirms that you have not been reading the replies, so I’ll just repeat a few of them:
“That’s like a warlock saying he will only SS himself because he’s the one doing the SS.”
“It takes time and effort (and often gold) to level pretty much everything the rest of the team is contributing with too. By that logic, the entire group should be paying for all reagents and expenses, including ammo and pet food, battle rez, Reincarnations, blessings, etc…”
" No, the fundamental difference is that professions, and try to pay attention to this bit, are not class specific skills ."
Not to mention that the lockpicking not being a profession was only one of the arguments against rogues claiming rights to locked chests, and a direct response to people equating it to professions as justification for rogues getting prio.
You’re the one who made the comparison of paying group members to use profession specific items (which you jumped to from paying for class specific skills), and insisted that all profession perks and items are equal.
