Depends what’s the goal. If it’s the story or just seeing the raid then you already have it in form of LFR.
M+ is different. You don’t play it for the story or whatever. It’s a very replayable end game content with no “cooldown”, unlike raid. Therefore the solo queue here makes much more sense.
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Like Draegor says, it depends on the goal, but I don’t think so.
I think Blizzard are mostly happy with the bang for the buck they get from their raid design, and the player feedback with regards to grouping also doesn’t seem overwhelmingly negative.
It could be better and it could be different, but Blizzard are likely happy with how it is.
Yes, they don’t have to spend hours being rejected to keys that they want to join if a finder system was introduced. Lets just rephrase it a little sand say more chances at dungeons.
Many players don’t have 4 hours+ a day to spend in WoW and playing a sign up simulator for the little time they have is hardly engaging content and can be pretty demoralizing.
That could include pretty much any dungeon making this a bad argument.
Throughout the life of WoW there have been dungeons of all levels where groups have not completed them for one reason or another.
Too bad no one is doing 100 dungeons in a row and quitting/failing/abandoning them all for this to be an actual talking point.
Irrelevant due to your hypothetical being a hyperbolic imagination.
I’m not your friend, pal.
Jokes aside, there are so many different reasons that people are picky. They can range from wanting to be boosted by players who are way above what’s needed for a key to succeed or someone simply being an undesirable spec because some WoW influencer types have made tier lists to other things like discrimination based on what server someone is on or having Cyrillic lettering in their names. There are so many reasons.
People have done this in all content levels in both raids and dungeons throughout the history of WoW.
Even LFR Dimensius can end up being a wipe fest even though LFR is technically very easy.
This game is mostly played by adults, if wiping is really that traumatic for them then they still have some growing to do.
I don’t think they would do this although a lot of people say normal is easier than LFR. I personally wouldn’t mind there being less difficulty levels but that’s a different conversation.
M+ has its difference because it runs on a system on timing dungeons and scoring appropriately for completed dungeons, At most you’re given a whole week to complete a raid between weekly resets.
Out of curiosity what makes you think Blizzard’s goal is to get “every grandma and her puppy’s backside” into M+? Raiding was here before M+, and CE(or its equivalent back in the times) was reached…by 1% of the playerbase? I am obviously pulling the number from a finger but certainly not 80% of the vanilla’s wotlk playerbase even saw Heroic LK for example and back then it was raid or die philosophy.
Expecting the end-game “cream of the crop” to be easily accessible by everyone is ludicrous to say the least. Similar with other games such FFXIV where maybe 0.1% will even bother to attempt ultimate.
Same story with PvP, not everyone will be a gladiator and etc. So so far, everyone is gucci and happy.
Now comes m+ and all of sudden it has to get the “socialism” treatment? Blizzard needs to ensure that absolutely every John and Jane gets into m+? Why?
What did M+ do to deserve this fate?
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The reason is quite Basic.
To many people have very negative experience of being constantly declined from groups.
That’s not a good customer experience and Blizzard Has to do something about it.
What tryhards think is irrelevant as they are irrelevant minority in eyes of new Blizzard in Microsoft era
YES. Theoretically you can tie a match. And if that is the case, you dont loose anything. Can you tie a PvE match? NOPE. You either win or loose. Its binary.
But in practice, ties happen for only the healers. The DDs is impossible.
The reason is: You got 4 random DDs chosen. There will always be 1 that is better, and 1 that is worse. The one that is worse will get ganked and killed 6 times.
Why does this happen? Because no matter how “prefect” the automatic matchmaking is, it can not take into account comp variations, and player skill. So it can never produce a selection of 4 DDs that will never have 1 DD that is the weakest, and 1 DD that is the strongest.
That is the PoV of a healer. The PoV of a DD is that 1/6 times YOU will be that 1 DD that always gets ganked and loose. But 4/6 times you wont. So, you will at a MINIMUM win 4/6 matches if ONE of the players looses 0/6 times.
THEREFORE: The math is a bit simplified, but the fact still remains. It is 100x harder to climb rating as a healer than as a DD. Therefore, no healer wants to play SoloQ. Just because the algorithm cannot be better.
If the SoloQ in M+ behaves the same as the solo shuffle in PvP healers and tanks will absolutely HATE to have to deal with that 1 monkey that keeps bricking keys.
And wont play. Just like in PvP.
What happens if no healers and tanks play? Then the quews will get longer. And what happens if there is a system where you spend 1h waiting for a timer to pop? Well… people dont play it. And it slowly dies.
Just like PvP.
I play 2h every 2 days. So 1h per day. And I dont have issues at all.
Bad argument? LFG at the moment has 90% completion rate on average.
Point is that all that “gatekeeping” in LFG is caused by that 10% of failed keys. Key holders are so afraid (because its so punishing to fail) that they will go to great lenghts on choosing who to invite to their keys.
Dont be dense. 100 runs is 100%. And its over a season not daily.
It was for simplicity. Want to use daily, well lets do daily then: You play 2 dungeons. You fail 2 dungeons. Or you play 5 dungeons, you fail 5 dungeons. Every day. Or, you play X dungeons in a season and you fail X dungeons in a season.
All the above means the same thing as 100 keys 100 fails. Use the brain god gave you please.
There is only ONE reason to be picky: Completion rate. You want to time/finish the key.
And you know that if 1 or 2 players dont perform the risk of failure skyrockets. So you invite the most qualified people you can think of to fill that roll.
(A) Dimensius LFR? Yes you can wipe. Imagine Dimensius Heroic. How would that go? How many more times do you think you would wipe? 
(B) The game is played by players. And NOBODY, regardless of age, is going to log in just to wipe the ground for X hours a day for no reward. Imagine this: You log in every day for 1h. In that hour, you pop the LFR quew for Dimentious Heroic. And every day, you wipe and wipe. For 6 months in a row and hundreds of wipes, you fail to kill him. <— How long before that individual cancels his subscription?
I mean from a casual pvp player solo que is the best thing that happend to pvp in my opinion because of rbg blitz and solo que i was able to do 1950 for elite set and weapon illusion and during the time i was doing it i found out that pvp is actually a Lot of fun 
But in m+ When i making my own group i have more control over success then solo que. So if a solo que is a thing it should be exactly like rbg blitz and solo que for arena.
But let me still use premade Finder to play like we do now. That is all they need to do
It’s kind of remarkable that this is the case really. You’d think people would want to engage in the social aspects of finding people given this is an MMO, but I guess we’ve veered so far off course from the MMO roots of the game that its current fanbase just want a lobby with a chat box and a “battle now!” button like it’s Warcraft 3 or something.
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You don’t think I know enough about M+? You should reconsider this statement.
Then, how about you stop being so vague and start being specific. Because if you try to imagine the specificity of how you would make M+ more “accessible” you run into problems.
Ask yourself: WHY do people wait so long? WHICH people? Be specific. Because I will:
- By people, you mean DPS wait a long time in a quew. <— THIS is the key to the discussion.
SoloQ will NOT automatically spawn new healers and tanks from thin air. That depends on class balance/design. NOT on a matchmaking system.
So. You need 3 DDs, 1 healer and 1 tank to make a group. If the whole pool of people in the LFG is composed of 100 DDs, 10 healers and 10 tanks (I exaggerated the numbers for simplicity)… THEN 10 groups are made. 30 DDs get to play. And 70 have to wait in line.
Therefore. At BEST… you a soloQ would NOT reduce the waiting times. Not even by a minute. Because the # of DDs is a zero sum game Jito. You can permutate who gets into the keys any way you like. 70 people will STILL have to wait.
Right now, key holders go to great lengths to maximize completion rates. And people that get rejected, are rejected for a reason. Because they cannot prove MORE experience than all the other people in the quew with them. And chances are, they DONT have that experience as well.
So. Conclusion. Lets make a SoloQ system. What criteria? Does it matter? It dosent. It can only have 2 outcomes compared to the LFG tool we have today:
OPTION A: An automated system would reject people with MORE experience, over those that have less experience. For a given key. Therefore increasing the chances of failing the key. <— Problem. Healers/tanks wont want to play, wait times increase (as is the case in SoloQ arena).
OPTION B: An automated system keeps the strict criteria and those with MORE experience get picked first. Then those with less will wait in the quew. Just as they do now. <— You havent fixed anything. Its still “inaccessible”.
And look at the possibilities between option A and B. ALL of them are worse than what we have now.
It SHOULD not come.
You want to improve the system, here is a list of things you can do that actually have an impact on accessibility:
- Reduce the penalty for failure by removing depletes. Or a similar mechanic.
- Create a “default healer/tank” UI to incentivize new players into the rolls.
- Create more dungeon mechanics/guides to buff/help healers/tanks specifically to incentivize the roll.
- Lean more on HP increase than on damage increase in dungeon scaling (to incentivize healer/tank play).
- Make more QoL improvements to LFG. For example, reduce the wait time from 5 min to 1 min.
- Normalize raid buffs and utility.
- Normalize certain dungeon mechanics, such as dispels.
- Changing the reward system, especially when it comes to the Vault and the interplay between M+ gear and Raid/Delve gear.
- Separate Delves from M+ gear.
THAT would have an impact. SoloQ… wont fix any of that.
He has been specific in previous topics. He wants every problem to be solved with AI. No tanks? AI-bots. Trouble with wiping because not enough interrupts? Remove interrupts from mobs. No CR or BL? Give it to everybody. Etc.
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Here are my 100 posts discussing this primarily with you in a previous thread. I refer back to those for specifics:
I think I also covered the specifics of an automated queue system:
Blizzard will end up with something vaguely resembling that in the end.
(post deleted by author)
And we already discussed, and most of the people in that thread disagree with a SoloQ in any way, shape or form. It removes player agency. It removes player freedom to “live in the level they want to be in”. It puts all that into Blizzards hands. “Daddy blizzard coming here telling us how to play”…
What ilvl would that be? Why dont you simply let people choose what they want.
This is == to no deplete. Which is what I am advocating for.
Except that if you want to skip levels you cant and are forced to do them. So every season I have to do keys 1-10 to get to the +12s instead of simply going directly to a +10.
That is me. Others might be in another situation. Let player choose what they want to do. Why does Blizzard have to decide for us? Based on what criteria? YOURS? Mine is as equally valid then.
OHH no. Absolutely not. You want me to do WQ for each key I do? Forget it.
I doubt it. You know why? Because they did it already. 3 times. And failed 3 times.
If they do a matchmaking for M+ then they are literally stupid. Cause implementing the same thing again expecting different results is stupid.
And on top of that… NONE of the things on that list, or in ANY of your other posts on that thread tackles the main issue:
- Not enough healers/tanks. It dosent fix that!
To fix that we need to touch the classes. NOT the matchmaking system. And we can discuss that on another thread if you want. But the results would be the same.
If you touch classes and more people heal/tank then there is no wait time in the LFG. Therefore, the problem goes away. Without a SoloQ forcing us to play how Blizzard decides.
Died in Wrath with LFG, then LFR then merging realms. Zero need to talk or be nice.
No it doesn’t. You’ll still have access to manual grouping through LFG as today.
Blizzard won’t be taking anything away from what already exists, they’ll just add another system to it. That’s always been their approach.
They didn’t remove LFG when they added automated queueing for dungeons back in WotLK.
They didn’t remove all the other raid difficulties or the manual grouping for them when they added LFR in Cataclysm.
And they haven’t removed 3v3 Arena or LFG grouping for that in the wake of adding Solo Shuffle.
Blizzard’s design approach in all their games is always just to add more ways to get people into the various activities.
Because it structures the gameplay.
If you can ensure that everyone who’s queueing up for a +5 key has beaten a +4 key and has the necessary item level to deal with the challenges of a +5 key, well then you’ve got a capable group for successfully beating the +5 key.
That’s the strength of an automated queue system: Blizzard gets to set the requirements on the player side and they get to tune the dungeon difficulties to their liking. When you’re in control of both sides of the equation, you can pretty much ensure the gameplay experience that will take place.
Sure. Blizzard just has a history of wanting to ensure that players actually go through the progression and take the steps up the ladder, even if those steps feel redundant. Blizzard don’t really do skips in their design, so I don’t believe they’ll suddenly start opting for that. If they don’t do it in Diablo IV they sure as hell are not going to do it in World of Warcraft.
No. I said that there would be multiple ways of acquiring keys. Could be any activity really. Could even just buy them from a vendor. Wouldn’t even have to be keys. Could be anything.
The point is just that Blizzard likes to have a price of admission.
Diablo III had that for its Greater Rifts, and WoW has it with its key system (which is loosely based on Diablo III) and Diablo IV has it with its Nightmare relics or whatever they’re called. Even Arena in Hearthstone has an admission cost.
It’s simply a design staple Blizzard likes to settle on across their games. Why? Because it ensures that if you pay for something upfront, then you’re going to be serious about doing it.
All of Blizzard’s automated queue systems have been a success, which is ultimately why they’ll do it, because they are driven by metrics and if they can implement a design that makes numbers go brrrrrrr they’ll do that.
When they added automated queueing for dungeons in WotLK the participation exploded.
When they added LFR for raiding in Cataclysm the participation exploded.
When they added Solo Shuffle for Arenas in Dragonflight the participation exploded.
When they added Rated Battlegrounds Blitz for The War Within the participation exploded.
Blizzard’s own motto of old will steer ultimately their design:
Accessibility is King
If you queue with several friends, then why even queue? You only need five. If you have 3 already you can also just fill the last 2 slots via LFG.
They can’t make tanks and healers though.
No amount of text walls will distract from the fact you never address this point when it’s presented to you.
They can add solo queue with no issues if role doesn’t matter and the content is face roll. Which is what I think is likely to happen.
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Not to mention that soloQ would no doubt have a “for leftover, rejects from manual grouping” stigma so the few tanks and healer we got would be also discouraged from trying a system because why should they?
In pre-mades - they can cherry pick the best group. In soloQ - get stuck with 4 randos without any say in the matter…and likely worse quality than manual grouping.
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I’ve addressed that point in the other thread so I’ll copy/paste:
It’s how it is for every other game. Overwatch had shortage of support and tanks. It still has that. But it’s less of an issue now because an automated queue system distributes players more efficiently into groups than manual grouping does. It’s why it’s the way of modern gaming in general. Players don’t want to spend time making groups, they want to spend time playing the games. So automated queue systems become popular because they are the best solution to more quickly get players into groups so they can play the games whilst at the same time reducing the burden on the players to make the groups.