you have always had the ability to talk in circles to try and get past your previous point in order to fit what ever you are trying to push at the time, the last time you decided to be particularly awkawrd with me was on a thread about LFR nzoth.
you claimed they needed to nerf it, while at the same time saying that blizz couldnt change the playerbase,
but the playerbase that is doing LFR was the problem
so at the same time blizz need to fix it, but they can fix the player base.
you literally talk in circles and make no sense, you are impossible.
I didn’t. You made it about THAT. I was just talking about bothering someone who made it clear to have no interest. You coined terms I have not used or implied.
That’s all you, man. Are you okay?
you specifically menioned a guy repeatedly trying to make a girl have sex with him even though she doesnt want to, what your initial point isnt the actions of a predator, or have you gone back and changed that comment now?
you are welcome to think that they are baseless but multiple people have brought it up because its a known trend, so feel free to blame the community for that, but i have also actively seen posts changing as i was typing out a response, so i know stuff has been changed after the fact.
Well, that wasn’t with MY posts then. Unless I was just changing some grammar or spelling mistakes here and there. Sometimes I change the wording of something to make my point more clear, but nothing as sinister as you are again ACCUSING ME of. Without evidence. Again.
I’m not a lawyer, but I would urgently advice you to stop commenting.
and yet you are also refusing to provide any evidence to back up any claims that you have made through the now 250 posts long thread that you have been a part of
and now because i have better things to ill i will have to just say goodbye to anyone that has been reasonable and move on because im sick to death of trying pass any message through this think skull, hopefully blizz can make the right choice and everyone can get what they want
We’re not asking to choose all. We can’t have every single talent picked at once, can we?. Why couldn’t the covenant signature and class abilities be learned as you play through the zones? There, you have your character progression, you’re learning new abilities for your character as you progress through the game. Why couldn’t there have been four soulbinds instead, one for each covenant? The three soulbinds each covenant has now could have been clumped into one giant talent tree with limited points to put in. How many people keep asking to get the old talent tree back? This is their chance.
You learn new unique abilities as you level and progress through the initial story, you reach max level and you see “New feature unlocked: Soulbinds”… “Hmm what are these Soulbinds?”, you say. You look in the adventure guide and read into Soulbinds:
“Master your newly acquired powers with the help of those native to the Shadowlands. Soulbinds provide you with countless possibilites to expand the abilities you have learned as you’ve journeyed through the mysterious lands outside of the mortal realm. The machine of death is broken, The Maw is swallowing all arriving souls and starving the the lands of Anima. The peoples of The Shadowlands need your help, and they are willing to help in any way they can. Expand your skillset with their knowledge as you unravel the mysteries of The Maw.”
We could expand on the individual abilities in different ways by advancing the Soublind trees. As we progress, we be could be earning “soulbinds points”, which we could mix and match as we please between offensive/defensive/utility trees, each altering our abilities their respective ways. The only limit would be how many talents we can unlock with our points and how far we can progress into the trees of each covenant, unlock more and more, and maybe, eventually, towards the end of the expansion, unlock everything and be reidiculously powerful as we have been in Legion with empowered artifact weapon, or as we are now with corruptions.
Of course we can’t have all four abilities free to use. To activate an ability for use, we’d need to go to the given covenant’s sancum and draw their power.
I’m already tired of arguing which is better, choice or no choice. I’m just having some fun at this point, trying to come with something that works for everyone without limiting anyone in any way. I didn’t have time to finish this idea in terms of story etc. I haven’t forgot about it, i just intentionally focused on the player power progression first.
Choose the aesthetics for all I care, but for Christ sake stop this borrowed power gated nonsense that forces everyone that actually cares to insane grinds.
honestly covenant abilities should just be a little something on the side rather than having a huge impact on class to class game play, at this rate you might as well just reinstate artefact weapons and be done with it.
TBF i made the point that classes are not 2 abilities and a bunch of passives several hours before the video. Agreeing with a youtuber/streamer doesnt make you a sheep, its just some people are way more articulate to get your point across.
There’s this mentality going around where everyone thinks they need to min-max everything and therefore everything needs to be optimal at all times and they need to copy everyone else and on and on it churns.
Meanwhile, on the flip-side, everyone’s always complaining about FotM and not having any customisation and never being able to pick what we want and constantly having to respec for every fight and all that jazz.
These two desires are diametrically opposed to one another.
I want you making a choice based on aesthetics first and foremost, and I also want some cool powers that go along with that choice. It’s no worse than racials or the old talent system. The problem here is not that we’re tying powers to aesthetics.
The problem here is that these abilities are very powerful and will have a profound impact on your damage rotation. Simply picking one over the other can give 5% DPS variances and things like that.
That isn’t what they should be, and I’ve said that since day 1. See here:
I like the idea of Covenant abilities and these more meaningful semi-permanent choices. Deleting it because you can’t understand why people want to make decisions that stick in an MMORPG is an idea that can only be born in the mind of an obsessive min-max’er who couldn’t care less about the world and the social elements.
And that’s exactly what Preach is, and I respect that he wants to be that guy, but most people aren’t that guy, and they want some RPG back in their MMORPG. The fact that you could even respec at all was considered a necessary design flaw in the vanilla iteration of WoW.
I think the solution, the one where we get fun abilities that tie to aesthetics and a semi-permanent RP based choice, while also not requiring obsessive min-max’ing, is to nerf those abilities to the point where they become like racials. Another advantage of this is we also avoid the crazy CD stacking and broken utilities problems like those we had in MoP.
That way we tie abilities to Covenants, but we don’t break the game for min-max’ers, either. What they’re doing right now will spawn way too much QQ from a minority but vocal part of the playerbase. It isn’t going to work.
These two come from two separate communities. So its not a contradiction, its more like butting of heads. There are the min/maxers whos play style is to be optimal. There are also the more casual players who want to experiment, and for some reason think they need to min/max for borderline trivial content.
Right now its around it could go up to 40+%. There is also the argument that you cant put a value on utility.
Stop pushing this narative. The abillities are just way too different and too impactfull to be blanced. You will say that we wont need them unless we are the #1%, we do not know how the instances will be tuned. Will they be tuned around min/maxing ? If so its mandatory to min/max then. Wont they be tuned around that? Then its going to be cheese fest. If we you want the Preach example the TL:DR is you can skip mechanics with the teleport or the shield if its not designed around that, if it is you will not survive without it. What about the soulbinds, essentially and Ankh for everyone, do you believe that cant be exploited, or and execute like effect for everyone, how do you design DPS checks around that ?
Lets not forget about the internal balancing of covenants how do you balance a Covenant wide utility, a Class wipe abillity a covenant wide skill tree and spec wipe sockets without the whole house of cards toppling down. Example lets say Venthyr Arms warrior is overperforming. Do you nerf the conduits? Congradulations you just nerfed all arms warriors. Do you nerf Soulbinds? You just nerfed every venthyr. Does your mage have to be nerfed because the Arms warriors are busted ?
Also there is a good portion of people that like to play multiple specs. How do these abilities balance across the specs. Take my warlock for example. The Kyrian abillity generates 5 soulshards when executed properly. 5 soul shards are 2-5 choas bolts for destro, 5 melefic ruptures for affliction and 5 demons for demo. Night fae and Maldraxxus work very different for Affliction than they do for destuction and demonology. And im not talking about numerical balance here, in some cases such abillities can be semi-dead buttons. Its worse for hybrid classes. Are we repeating BfA where we are spec locked?
Ok so another issue how do you pick a covenant. Yes you get to “test” the abilities during the short time you are leveling, but you dont get to see the soulbinds. One ability could perform well during questing (id say the Necrolord shield) yet in a dungeon or raid enviroment it could be completly useless for you. Again back to Preach’s videos, yes it might impact mostly the 1% that doesnt mean heroic raiders wont be impacted, doesnt mean casuals wont be impacted. Why is it bad to experiment without consequences.
You are getting that. Player power does not have to tie in with RP choices. You can get consequences even if you remove the borrowed power. Also there is nothing RP-ish about a warlock dealing ARCANE damage with a DoT or empower my shadow based channel do to NATURE damage. Nature as a WARLOCK ?!! We are the exact opposite of that . There are so many ways to do this that it could work. What if the covenants augmented you abbilities to be covenant based visually, you can have death themed fire balls if you join Necrolords or a corpse meteor. Preachs example was also interesting about encouraging the swaping of covenants where you become this hybrid, you know how people like the San’layn well Venthyr+Necrolord. Drust ? Got you fam just ditch the necrolords and come over to Ardenweld.
Just because blizzard told you its a “meaningfull choice” and that these are “sub-classes” doesnt make it so , they just want to market it that way. So instead of blaming the “obssesive min/maxers” for warning you that this system is bad turn to Blizzard and demand an ACTUAL meaningfull choice.
A contradiction does not mean that it’s the same person saying it, although many people are. A contradiction simply means there are several statements that are opposed to one another. And that’s what those two are.
The trick is to find a way to make these two contradicting statements work together.
Probably.
Either way the point is this shouldn’t be happening.
Make me.
Yes. I do think that, which is what I post literally a few lines down from where you appear to have stopped reading.
The idea is that people will have a mix of these different things and encounters will be designed to assume you have a mix of them.
If one of them becomes dominant, Blizzard has failed.
Personally I think soulbinds should be similar across the covenants. Like I said, the variation is fun, but it’s too powerful to be static. We have to tone it way down. But if we do, it will work.
They can make class-targeted soulbind nerfs or buffs if they want to. And they will, for sure. Might even split them for PvP. Not buying this argument.
I don’t honestly think you should be doing that as much as you think you should. I think you should have to sacrifice your offspec for your mainspec - or create more characters.
This is a fundamental difference of opinion on what character customisation means. I want you to be a destruction warlock, or whatever. Not a warlock. I want warlocks to be different from one another, and whenever you come in here and tell me you should be able to choose it all, I just reply that you haven’t chosen anything at all.
This is absolutely fundamental and, ultimately, it’s what drives this whole discussion.
I think it’s reasonable to allow experimentation. That doesn’t mean I think it’s reasonable for your to be able to change things up all the bloody time.
Perhaps something like invitationals would be cool? Like, you’re specced Night Fae, and then for a few days, the Venthyr are having this party and they invite the mortal heroes of Azeroth to re-align with them, to give them a chance. You can then try it for a few days. If you like it, you can keep it, no penalty. If you don’t, you’ll just revert automatically.
Can’t change it whenever you want, but you get chances to test out new stuff and change it. When an invitational happens, the penalty is completely removed.
But again, I want it to stick. I don’t want you changing your entire character build for every raid boss, or changing it back and forth every arena game. The meta breaks.
Yes, it does. That’s exactly what it does. That’s what role playing game means. You’re taking on a role in the world and using the powers that grants you to complete encounters.
You separate those two - you take out the RPG. That’s why I call modern WoW a “reasonably competent action game.” They killed the RPG. There are no meaningful character choices, neither in powers or in storytelling. You have no choices at all.
Finally Blizzard tries to put the RPG back into WoW, and everybody’s screaming about how awful it is that characters are going to be different.
**** that argument in its stupid face.
Designing this is challenging, no doubt. It requires a lot of testing, it requires being careful, and it requires making compromises on its powers.
I want the differences to be somewhere in the scale of racials with very situational uses in raids which you can’t do without. You need a mix of them - and if you don’t have it, it just breaks. But giving mages binding shot silence and things like that… no! That’s not good.
You’re not arguing for a meaningful choice. You’re arguing to remove it because you think there’ll be a wrong one. The trick is to make the choice meaningful AND make there not be wrong choices.
