If it’s the ENJOYMENT you care about, then you two should have absolutely no problem at all with this:
Read the thread. Read the other threads. Don’t just spout self-serving ignorant nonsense without thinking of the ramifications.
Hah… Self serving ignorant nonsense. From the person who supports 10 people with perfect class balance and external voice comms crushing 10 strangers. Right, because those 10 strangers should suck it up and accept it.
Exactly what would those ramifications be? That instead of the randoms getting tiny HPH and the big chongus premade getting a lot of HPH, the honour would be more evenly distributed down the tree and the people who don’t sweat 24/7 a day on the game get to have a chance of reaching some PvP rewards?
Or are you suggesting that to get the good PvP rewards you should be forced into playing in a false system that greedy sweaty players create themselves to exclude all but the 0.01%?
Who is stupid and self centred again sorry?
Go and do some raiding if you like the idea of being forced to team up and defeat something which has no chance of fighting back, that afterall is what it was designed for.
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Called it.
Called what? Why shouldn’t people who play the game normally be allowed to get some rewards?
You are the exact kind of person who tries to make Classic unpleasant for the general population.
You seem to be very smug about your idea that somehow it’s wrong for people who play the game around a normal life to want some of reward out of it? What is your problem? You think that people are supposed to just accept that they always lose in PvP?
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You’re the one asking for refail to be brought into Classic. You know where you can find those QoL changes? In refail. It’s much more designed for people without time to play it, than Classic is. You’ll get epics everywhere you go there.
Did your parents not give you enough attention as a kid or something? Just wondering what horrible life events happened to you to make you such a bitter and twisted individual.
Instead of twisting the problem around and using the terrible argument about crying entitled babies wanting free gear who should go to retail, why don’t you try and look at the actual points of this discussion here?
Essentially what this question comes down to is very simple:
Should 10 people who organise into groups with perfect class balance and using extrernal voice comms, be allowed to queue into groups of strangers who have imperfect class balance and no option for voice comms.
Why should 10 or 15 people be graveyard farmed in over half of their PvP games, just to so that 0.01% of people can get the best rewards?
The people who play the most hours will still get the most honour, they just won’t get as much and if they want to queue in premades, they will have to be decent to beat the other premades, and therefore EARN the top rewards through some sort of skill facing equal opposition, rather than just whoever has the most hours in a day.
The people who don’t play as much have a much better chance to get some honour if they are good, by winning more games and having more influence in them. They can still get some rewards but slower and over longer time.
As it is now, many people simply don’t want to play because they are sick of being steamrolled every game, that is not a good experience or a way to get people into PvP. Battlegrounds should be accessible to all, not just the elite few. Rewards will become accessible to more people, and of course they top rewards will still be inaccessible to most but at least the medium rewards will be available to a wider pool of people.
Only people who are very bad at PvP or the game don’t want to play on an equal footing.
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Oh, you want to look at the ACTUAL POINTS OF DISCUSSION?
So you’re aware of the weak points of a split with rewards for a solo queue, right? The bot problem? The social design problem? The premade exploits? You’re aware of all of these, right?
I mean, of course you are, since you’re the one demanding to look at the “actual points of discussion”. (Despite it being spot on that you just whine about it because you feel entitled to epics despite not doing enough to earn it.)
So you’re of course also aware of how all this would impact the ladders, right? And the gameplay itself? Yeah? Ok, great.
You’re the one who’s bad at the game, yet demanding rewards for staying bad.
Also, I told you already:
No need to write it all down again, when I can just keep quoting it. If the enjoyment of it was truly what you cared about, then you would be fine with the “easy mode” following the skirmish arena model. But you don’t care about the enjoyment. You just want to be rewarded faster and with better epics.
You sound pretty crazy, and you’re completely distracting from the actual topic here:
Is it acceptable in WoW PvP for 10/15 strangers to be crushed by 10/15 premade perfectly balanced compositions with external coms, in around 50% of matches? Yes or no?
Premade vs Premade, you get the same amount of honour for a win, same amount of honour for kills as PUG vs PUG?
No one is demanding free epics and R14 weps for all. You are deluded / irrational if you think that’s what this is.
First and foremost, no one likes constantly losing and being beaten when the odds are slim or impossible to win.
Secondly, people are and should be entitled to some rewards for PvP’ing. These rewards should go to those who spend the longest and do the best. This is the same as it is now. What changes is that elitist idiots can’t make premade mafia groups, which simultaenously ruin PvP for non premades and also prevent people not in those mafias from getting anywhere higher than a certain level, no matter how many hours they put in.
So what you’re actually complaining about is that the bad PvP’ers who form these premade mafia groups, will have a HARDER time getting their epics. Maybe it is you that should go and play Refail if you like it so easy after all?
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Meanwhile, at the same time in the same post, you ignore the
such as:
and of course, you continue to:
Well done you can use forum quote. Clearly this isn’t a discussion rather than you shouting down people who tear apart any semblance of an argument you think you had.
Kind of like those flat earth people who are convinced of their correctness despite irrefutable proof. Are you a flat earther?
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I refer you back to this… I too can use quote.
You’re the one still continuing to obfuscate and divert attention from the points presented. Go ahead, say what you’d do about the bot problem and its inevitable impact on ladders and gameplay, when the solo queues would inevitably get a certain recurring percentage of teams being filled with them.
Go ahead, talk about the social design problem. It leads to the same social atmosphere as in refail if you do it your way, coupled with xrealm.
Go ahead, talk about how you’d stop the premade exploits, if you even understand how they work (somehow I doubt you do).
Go ahead, nobody is stopping you. Now say what you’d do about that to make your demand even remotely viable.
Why would teams get filled with bots if they aren’t already, how does implementing solo queue somehow make botting an issue? Genuinely baffled here.
What social design problem? You can still do premades with your friends, you just have to play vs other premades?
Exploits exist in premades now, exploits exist because of the people who know about them vs the people who don’t, this can be done by Blizzard fixing these?
You still didn’t answer why you think it’s acceptable for organised teams to crush groups of strangers and why you support this so heavily?
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https://www.projecthorseshoe.com/reports/featured/ph18r8.htm
Read it. It covers the actual impact. And I said the social atmosphere, not about premades. It means the way people would interact in a solo-only queue, with rewards on the line, where you never remember anyone, and don’t suffer much risk of punishments for raging since the games are fairly quick.
I said recurring. Basically bots would fill a certain percentage of each team on average. The impact of that on teamplay and so on, as well as its impact on ladders when it’s much more effective than premading so the popularity of it would increase rapidly.
Oh look, you’re just an ignorant pleb. You don’t even know what premade exploits are. And no, it doesn’t mean terrain exploits. Learn the difference.
In the end, you’re just a fool demanding free epics like LFR in refail.
No, you’re the fool trying to protect your free epics in your premade mafia. You should go to retail since you obviously dislike this game and the community so much.
But that’s how PVP is except for the elite groups who do premades and the occasional group of friends or guild mates (Who are much less of an issue but hard to separate). Also not sure what your point is here since that’s exactly how LoL, DOTA, CS, etc works. And they are kind of successful and popular if you didn’t notice?
Also people do already grief / afk / flame in PUGS so there wouldn’t be a lot of difference
What proof have you of this? I still have no clue why bots would be an issue.
Yes an ignorant pleb for not knowing intricately every detail of the game, therefore I have no right to speak on any of it, of course. Exploit is exploit and Blizzard should fix them whether it stays like it is now or if solo queue was implemented. I don’t see your point.
All I see is the nagativity around why it wouldn’t work. AKA you’re scared someone might break your pre-made mafia and easy epics.
You haven’t given any reason in support of why 10/15 players should regularly be allowed to crush 10/15 others. Reason? You can’t, it’s indefensible.
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Because its an mmo. Also grouping up is not an exploit. Also its not like premading is some super elite thing. You are crying because you are losing. Doesnt take much effort to fight back and make a team.
“Easy epics”?
Do yourself a favour and actually read what Beware is telling you.
No retail features in Classic.
“Premade mafia”
Gotta say, this is rich, like thorium veins.
Mining more I can even find other pearls like:
“Exploits” “easy epics” “indefensible”.
Rich rich stuff in your posts.
In this thread:
People who want easy epics by forming premades with perfect comps to stomp pug groups who have no chance. People who make up a very small minority of the community.
Above people who then come up with any number of reasons why solo queue somehow won’t work, without actually acknowledging the fact that they are just bad at PvP which is why they only want to play in one-sided games with one outcome.
Above people who then complain that anyone who doesn’t like getting stomped in 50% of games should “go back to refail lul” even though that’s actually the majority of the community.
Why bother having this discussion anyway, it’s not like Blizzard suggested they will change anything or that the topic is even up for discussion. Your premade mafias and guaranteed R14 is safe, don’t fret. But just so you realise, most of you will get crushed in Arenas if they get released and that will be the time for the normal pvp players to actually get good rewards that are based on skill level and not sitting at your PC 24 hours a day 7 days a week. But yea, enjoy your titles etc and gear that is about to be outclassed in the next phase anyway, you sure “deserve” it and “earned” it. 
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In this thread:
Actual idiots with no real argument or ability to think critically, nor any reading comprehension. Instead, we have whining crybabies that want easy access to rewards and reputation without putting in the effort of making friends and playing with teammates.
With your attitude, I can certainly see why nobody wants to group with you.
You’re in for a shock. TBC is going to be the same as Classic, it’s going to be min/maxed to the max and the way rating works means that getting 2k rating in Classic-TBC will be a hell of a lot harder than what it was back in the day.
You’re going to find yourself stuck at 1.6k and this time: you won’t be able to blame those mean old premades or “bracket mafias”.