Well, I gotta go now. It has to do with the situation not being similar; if horde is at SP the battle is over. Not literally, but you have lost all incentive of winning. If SP was critical as IB is, things would be different…
It is critical though. Since it leads to losing. If it’s “impossible” to overcome that “cave advantage”, then Alliance would never be able to lose. Ever. It’d even make it possible to run small teams PvEing their way down the Horde side of the map while holding that line.
So yeah, the widespread mindset issues is the real problem. Alliance only ever learned to give up when they weren’t playing in premades. And that mindset was inherited over and over again, in each new wave of players. (This was a thing even during the Alliance premades, since the few who weren’t in premades got mixed in with the few of the premade players who still tried after their premades got taken away after all those hotfixes. So because those “solo players” who only ever knew how to lose got mixed in, it drastically lowered the “quality” of the player average compared to the premades, which none of the Alliance players were used to. And then the few of the remains of premade players quickly gave up altogether, because “the map” is to blame in their minds.)
You yourself are an example of that @Gaahll.
You clearly didn’t know about what you were saying, you were just repeating things you had been told and read online, and using that to fuel your extremely negative perception of AV. So you had inherited the mindset problem, because of the huge social media disinformation campaign and the negative mindset being shared in in-game chats.
Those mindset problems also leads to self-fulfilling propechies. As you put it yourself, you claim it’s “all over” even though it really isn’t, as soon as just a single flag is assaulted on the map. So you start playing worse, choosing to not try anymore, because in your mind it’s already a loss. So you’re not trying anymore, and everyone else like you are also not trying anymore, thereby causing your own loss.
Your prophecy comes true from your own actions, and your actions change because in your mind it’s already the outcome that will happen so you stop trying to change the outcome. It’s literally what a self-fulfilling prophecy is.
And then confirmation bias kicks in, claiming all those “statistics” of losses means there’s a problem with the map, because you “already know” the map is the problem, thus using those numbers to confirm what you “already knew”.
It’s both fascinating and disgusting at the same time, how messed up it became for everyone just because Alliance chose to exploit from day 1 of BGs, which caused a huge segregation in the player base for Alliance. There was the tryhards, premading as much as they could, and the not-so-tryhards who just followed the trends, and then the solo players who thinks picking flowers is the best way to play the game (figuratively speaking).
And the top secluded themselves with their other top players, while the middle started grouping up a bit later and some top players started letting them in too, while the bottom were always excluded from all of it. While on the Horde side, they all played together from day 1, and taught the bottom and the middle what they needed to do, to the best of their abilities. Alliance never had that same bonding process as the Horde did. Ever. The bottom never got to share in the formation of playing the meta, that was exclusively only for the premaders.
So the forced mixing of them all once the exploits were mitigated, became a very ugly sight.
And then that storm of mindset issues (originating all the way back from the WPvP phase), leading to the self-fulfilling prophecies, which in turn has led to confirmation bias all over the place. It’s truly tragic. Alliance only ever learned to lose when not in premades, in AV.
As others have said though, when people try and someone leads, then Alliance does win sometimes. As it should be. It’s just that this hasn’t become the norm for Alliance, thanks to the Alliance tryhards avoiding AV like the plague.
It’s like PvP actually deciding the outcome of the BG is unthinkable for Alliance players. And to win in PvP requires effort(teamwork, individuals taking their own initiatives, patience, tolerance etc.), ability (skill), gear, setup (classes + talent choices), and luck.
I’v noticed the one tactic that can work for Alliance, besides gear requirements is Rush Tactic around 10 min , to just rush to Drek after wiping the horde at SHGY…but only if Horde is not going hard on deffence.
Paladin would pull guard around Drek outside and bubble, while rest of Alliance zerg Drek hard and fast…
It has to be premade and Leader has to be experience and most importantly very strict and decisive.
Sorry but that is the biggest load of tripe I have ever read. It’s nothing to do with the mind set at all
It’s completely to do with the map. The objectetive of av is to win if you lose shgy there is no chance to win mindset or not the distance is just impossible for a pug to overcome against a horde team that is even weaker than their own team.
Spgy yes we could infact use the cave to keep or hold it indefinitely without horde being able to take it because of our respawns. well until Lok and bat riders are summoned anyway (which we cannot prevent as we are stuck north of shgy) which will break any turtle.
ask yourself what is the point in holding that forever if you cannot advance? both sides suffer at this point in the map to break a turtle at sp or sh because the distance is just too great respawns will destroy you regardless of faction.
So most Allience hk until there is no honor left and wait for you to take sp so they can try gather bonus honor before the end which is more efficient and this is not a mindset issue as it is pointless to hold it after honor diminishing returns because you just waiting for horde to summon the boss there is no progression as Allience cannot break a turtle at shgy and we cannot summon anything to break the horde turtle and that my friend is why this map is completely unbalanced and clearly shows from any statistic that its the map that gives the horde the advantage.
There is never a point where horde can take spgy without the horde summon if Allience do not let them it is that simple. just the same for shgy
Horde do not face this issue at all at ibgy if Allience hold it horde can reinforce faster than Allience can respawn at ibgy 2/1 spawn and only 20 seconds from ibgy flag easy to break turtle there
Their agenda is quite obvious: keep their tremendous advantage so they can keep on their easy wins and easy honor/reputation.
And the reason you can’t do that while keeping up the pressure on ib gy is because… ?
They’re reversed situations, if Horde can do it while keeping up the pressure on SP GY, then why can’t you do it while keeping up the pressure on IB GY?
Oh right, and why can’t you turn in stuff while holding that SP GY line? You said you can do it indefinitely. So if you summon them, which you presumably can do faster than Horde can since the Horde would need to go all the way back to base, then it should be the help that leads to you pushing them back, no? Especially since the Horde would presumably be fewer in numbers since they have so many going back to base to turn in stuff.
Oh wait right, I forgot… You’ve already given up when Horde is at SP GY, so that never happens.
Right… How to solve that problem… Oh, that’s right. Fix the loser mindset. There you go, problem solved.
I assume you are talking about shgy and not ibgy otherwise there is no flying mounts in av I can’t simply fly past shgy.
We can put pressure on shgy but it’s same effect as horde putting pressure on spgy nobody can take it. I think you need to learn the map if we want to summon we would have to push past shgy to get to the field of strife which means we have nothing to break a turtle at shgy while u can easily send back 10 from shgy into the field of strife to summon Lok.
Before you say why we can’t do the same at ibgy. it’s not the same layout horde spawn 20 Vs 10 in a cave less than 20 seconds from the flag it is very easy to keep pressure when you out spawn and can attack consistently before players can even drink mana. You do not face the same challenges as Allience 1 minute reinforcements to shgy is a lifetime compared you can easily drink 2-3 times before seeing 1 Allience reinforcement not to mention the 10 man respawn.
I think you need to learn the map before you blame it on mindset
You don’t even understand what was written. It clearly says IB GY, not SH GY. IB GY is the reversed situation of SP GY.
Alliance cave is near SP GY while Horde cave is near IB GY, Alliance spawns far in the back before IB GY have been captured, while Horde spawns far in the back before SP GY have been captured.
Get it yet?
So when Alliance is at IB GY and pushing, why can’t Alliance start summoning stuff? Horde can apparently do it when pushing at SP GY, which you’ve said you can hold indefinitely.
And when Horde is at SP GY and you’re holding it indefinitely, why can’t you summon your own stuff in the base (ram riders etc., and the druids as long as you don’t let them die then they help a lot too), which would presumably go much faster than for Horde since Horde needs to run all the way back to base to summon theirs? And if you summon them while Horde is trying to summon theirs, Alliance would then have a numerical advantage at SP GY.
Get it yet? Hmm???
Ok, to clarify it even further for you, it’s about two separate scenarios. One scenario where Alliance are the ones that’s pushing at IB GY. While the other scenario is about Horde pushing at SP GY.
Both of which, you’re prone to giving up instead of trying everything you can.
It’s completely not the same I covered both sernarios in my last post read it.
when horde are attacking spgy we don’t even spawn at the cave we spawn 10 a time in the Gy which is a non issue as we still hold spgy without any effort just same horde can hold shgy without any effort with 10 spawn it’s the distance that is the problem it takes too long to reinforce and break a turtle.
Regarding ibgy The reason we cannot go back and summon is because you spawn 20 a time in a cave and the distance you have to run is nothing this is a massive advantage. We can take ibgy no problem its holding it your cave spawns is the problem because your so close you can send wave after wave and it stops our advancement we don’t even have a break to drink between waves it means we need more on defence so we cannot afford to send 10 players off to summon ivus as we will lose ibgy.
Two completely different scenarios your turtle has no weakness while we have to deal with cave and faster respawn reinforcement it’s a huge advantage it is the reason for the win rates.
I really think you need to take your blinders off when pvping in AV or roll an ally alt and see for yourself before you even think about blaming mindset what a joke if anything Allience have a stronger mindset than the horde having to put up with these disadvantages for an entire expansion.
Wait until tbc and horde won’t know what to do when they have had it easy for a whole expansion
Except it is the same. Once SP GY is assaulted, you spawn in the cave with your “cave advantage”, and once IB GY is assaulted then the Horde spawns in the cave with their “cave advantage”.
By the way, you do know that for the “cave advantage” to even come into effect, you need to kill 11+ Horde in less than 30 seconds, right?
Also, it’s hilarious you say that. You do know that SH GY in the first clash is much closer, right? So if it makes such a difference just because of the distance, then why can Horde assault it and capture it, while they’re still spawning back in IB GY when they die?
You can make that same comparison to SP GY, why can Horde assault it and capture it?
We can get spgy back with spawning in the cave if we want to it’s not an issue and if you got spgy it’s because the Allience let you have it or you have your summons up.
it doesn’t change the fact we need shgy which we cannot get because of the distance and respawns.
It’s totally possible to kill 11+ horde in a 30 second window it’s classic PvP players die in seconds it’s funny you completely ignore the Length of time it takes you to come from cave to ibgy to attack you can try cherry pick things all you want but the fact remains you have a huge advantage your trying to defend it by blaming mindset such a weak argument.
Allience never lose shgy on the first clash infact we win the first clash everytime but your trying to defend a flag that can get attacked from multiple sides.
the field of strife is wide open there is no choke near shgy Infront of the flag so it’s not as simple as the horde are going to come through there we would have to have everyone not moving from the flag to defend but it but then again we don’t progress unless we start pushing leaving sh vurnable to a flank if we lose shgy once the game is lost.
If horde lose ibgy it’s a non issue you have the cave it’s easy to take back. Then there is snowfall again puts your spawns even closer to our flag to keep the pressure on but when we have it it’s more of a hinderence since we cannot afford to defend the two and push as well as it puts us not much closer to your Gy but if we lose sh game over.
Keep on defending your advantages.
I guess things must’ve changed. I never saw Alliance win that first clash when they were not in premades. Ever. What I did see was at least 10+ Alliance never even dismounting, while trying to escape to the sides like gazelles.
Already covered that. Are you senile? Why can’t you summon your own stuff while holding it, if it’s so easy to hold? There’s only one thing that requires going to mid in order to summon, which is the tree. And the druids themselves can do quite a lot of damage while moving there, so if you never let them die then they’re a big help too.
But of course, there’s the other stuff you can summon besides the tree, which is easy to do from the base just by turning stuff in.
Everygame I play we win first clash so don’t know what game you are playing.
Do I have to dumb this down for you,okay here goes
imagine AV as a huge chess board, every piece on the board is a pawn that can attack any direction
Every 30 seconds you get one dead piece back on the board depending on what section you hold.
But there is some exceptions which I will get into.
Horde are black and Allience are white.
White always win first attack because white always moves first in chess and the pawns meet closer to whites section.
The white side of the board has double the amount of squares to move up compared to the black side so the middle of the board is closer to the white side.
Situation 1. if black reaches the white side (shgy) it invokes a rule you can place your pawns on the middle (shgy) while the white side will put them at start of the board (spgy). This gets very difficult for the white to take out the black since it’s a huge distance you cannot kill them faster than they come on to the board after x amount of turns you summon a super pawn on the board which wins you the game.
Situation 2. If white reaches blacks side of the board (ibgy) the black can now put two pieces on the board every 30 seconds now because you only have a few squares to move you easily overpower the white side pushing them back but if white can hold the position for x turns we summon super pawn to win although this is highly unlikely as there is a clear advantage for the black side.
Then we have the end of the game where black wins 99% of the time then you have Mr beware saying yeah this is totally balanced it’s all in the mind of the white players. Do you want to swap sides Mr beware replies ofc not I only play on black side
Looks more like you need it dumbed down. You can’t even do metaphors properly, you’re applying your own rules to the metaphor which isn’t even applicable.
Not to mention, you fail to answer the posts you’re replying to. So what is it, are you deliberately misleading here and continuing your social media disinformation campaign? Or are you just as stupid as you make yourself look like? Which is it?
There’s absolutely no way you kill more than 10 people every 30. seconds. I’ve never seen 10+ people spawn in the cave at the same time lol
Edit: I lied - unless the cave is being camped obviously
Yeah, that’s the problem with that premise. If the cave advantage ever comes into effect, the people being ressed aren’t back in the fight as soon as they ress. There are those who needs to buff, while those who can’t buff still needs to manually run out of the cave and then mount up.
So a 30 second ress timer, where Alliance is killing 11+ Horde in less than 30 seconds, means Alliance is the side dominating the fight with the subsequent numerical advantage. So if they did it then, then they’ve got enough to do it again, and on and on it goes until they get the IB GY graveyard.
Because the kill rate isn’t exactly static. So as soon as Horde has lost all those players, the rest dies faster and faster since there’s less and less holding that pushing force back.
It leads to a snowball effect.
It’s much more common for there to be a deadlock, where only a few dies on each faction (which takes a long time for them to do), so the closer graveyard is the only difference, which in turn leads to that numerical advantage for the moment, causing that illusion that there’s a “cave advantage” with 11+ ressing every 30 seconds. Even though they never killed 11+ in less than 30 seconds.
I had to dumb it down for you why it’s the map and not player mindset is the reason for 99% loss you just don’t get it and your seriously comparing summoning druids to take back shgy when they die easy that is such a fail tactic compare that to the short distance cave Respawn I’m not even mentioning you can use shamans on top of that because it’s a non issue to deal with. I know what one I would choose if I had a choice hmmm
You think that Allience don’t have to buff up on top of that we have to run more than double the distance to get back into the fight it’s a huge advantage and you both are a joke
Right… Except… I’ve provided lengthy explanations and reasoning behind it, while you’re just ignoring it. You’re clearly in need of it to be dumbed down further, so it’s brought down to your level.
What have I ignored