Oh then please do explain what was the point of your completely made up argument of how the Horde, who can reach the middle of the map faster on a 60% mount than Alliance with a 100% mount, supposedly meed Alliance in the middle. You making things us then saying “you just don’t get it maaan” proves very little.
Don’t feed the troll, friend gnome - just ignore him 
Cool story, but once at SP the alliance has lost all reasonable hope of winning- and a lot of ppl will just bail out. The fight at SH is where it matters, and there horde has a distinct advantage.
In regard to the recent past where horde would recall, this obviously had a purpose as alliance is full in on the attack, leaving defense open. This makes delaying for the horde worthwhile, as they actually have a PVE team going at it at the same time. Alliance is just never in the same spot.
Right now alliance has also lost all PVP ers in AV, and what remains is 40 ppl who just want their one mark ASAP for rep rewards.
The BG starts with 40 ppl that have already given up from the start. And all this can be related to the horde spawn advantage during the battle for SH.
Except Alliance resurrects close to the fight while Horde resurrects all the way in the back at ib gy… ?
Also, have you noticed how you keep bringing up literal reasons why Alliance actually does lose, but still claim it’s all the “map’s fault”?
Oh, and just a quick FYI, the proper Alliance premades did have teams defending bunkers etc.
Its all the maps fault. Well not all, we could also bring to the table that people with PVP on their mind are more likely to chose horde, as those simply have the better racials for it. I am not unreasonable.
I said SH but I mean the whole field of play, between IB and SH. I am not a diplomated internetwarrior, so I am not always to clear. My apologies.
So, according to you, Horde have an advantage in the middle of the map because… Why? It’s a large area you’re talking about here after all.
it’s certainly not an advantage to have the GY far away. As the many Alliance players have stated repeatedly. So how exactly is the cave location and fighting near balinda’s bunker an advantage to Horde?
And how is fighting in the middle of the map, in that big open field, an advantage to Horde?
Because they get more respawns! You already knew I was gonna say that. And I don’t think it needs further explaining.
Are you going for the alternative thought, that horde simply is much much better, that people who chose horde for aesthetics, lore, or whatever reason ALSO turned out to be massively better players and this explains the 0.5% alliance win ratio? What is your agenda?
How?
I definitely think it does. You know they don’t ress in the cave when dying in that first clash, right?
No no, of course not. It’s because Alliance premaders created a segregated player base on the Alliance side, whereas the premaders simply quit AV when their exploits got taken away (yes, several).
Leaving for the most part the ones who kept losing their AV games as a solo player starting with 10+ players on the Alliance side because premades had dodged the queue.
Meanwhile, the Horde player base had been forced to undergo that bootcamp for months, facing almost nothing but premades over and over again. So it had a rapid acceleration effect on the meta forming for them.
While Alliance have literally, all this time, kept crying “it’s the map’s fault!” over and over again.
Actually, I did not know that. However it still holds relevance when you try to take IB, that horde automatically starts with a big group (in PUG condition) and this gives a large momentum to take back IB.
So all of a sudden it’s not an advantage to have that first big fight be near balinda’s bunker? Ok.
As for the “advantage” of the cave, it’s literally the same advantage alliance have at sp gy once it’s assaulted. The same conditions. Yet sp gy doesn’t get taken back. Funny how that works.
And keep in mind, for the increased “respawn rate” as you called it to even be a thing, 11+ players of that faction needs to die within a 30 second window. Otherwise it’s just as any other GY that just happens to be close. Every other GY other than caves have a limit on 10 players resurrected each 30 seconds.
Which, you know, kinda indicates the side doing the killing is holding up fairly well.
You are trying to argument the inargumentable. AV is 0.5%. Other BG’s are 45%; my personal stat is over 50% for alliance. But I tend to play late at night and this may draw a different audience.
Clearly, something is wrong with AV. It has been argumented this spawn point is the problem. Incindently, a later iteration of AV also moved this spawn point further down. This does seem like recognition by Blizzard.
Oh, you want to talk about that now? Ok.
So, in the olden days, when Burning Crusade was Crusading and Burning, Blizzard changed Alterac Valley pretty much entirely in Patch 2.3.0.
They brought in reinforcements (still a thing in refail today), they removed Commanders/Lieutenants from the map, they increased the honor gain from destroying towers/bunkers, they reduced the time it takes to capture from 5 minutes down to 4 minutes, they removed half of the warmasters/marshals for both factions so that you couldn’t get new ones to spawn by burning a tower/bunker however you could still despawn the enemy warmasters/marshals by burning a tower/bunker.
In this patch, most importantly, they also made it so players can only resurrect in caves once ALL of the faction’s graveyards have been lost.
They also made most of the elites in faction bases into non-elites.
They had STILL NOT MOVED THE CAVE.
Ok, so you’d now imagine “how did this impact the meta?”. Well, it made it so elites weren’t slowing down players rushing, and teams that were geared enough were actually just rushing straight into the enemy boss and it became a rush war from both factions for the most part. WIth no PvP whatsoever.
Because of the reduced capture timer, as well as removal of elites and all that, as well as bringing in reinforcements, the distance to the first bunker vs. the distance to the first tower mattered a lot more as well.
So what Blizzard did in Patch 2.4.0 was reduce the health of Vanndar and Balinda to match the Horde counterparts, as well as bringing in basically an “anti-rush” mechanic.
They made it so every warmaster/marshal INCREASED the health & damage of every other warmaster/marshal AS WELL AS THE BOSS(!) by 25% for each warmaster/marshal nearby, with an aura.
THIS was the patch they moved the Horde cave in. For those reasons.
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Ok, maybe you can tell it to me more simple: why did they change the horde cave location? This seems unrelated to other changes going on in that patch.
Just read it, please. All of it, not just the quoted part above.
I hope I don’t need to explain how those reinforcements work. Because that matters too.
Well, let’s not get into that. No, I don’t because I forgot. I would tend to think that Blizzard moved the horde spawn for several reasons. You put it all into one argument. There could have been more. One of them could be the argument made recently: how it is pretty tough hanging on to IBGY when that cave is so near.
I am going of topic here: what would you change 1) nothing 2) make IBGY 10v10 respawn, as is SH?
What about SP GY?
Ok, let’s get into that then.
Each team starts with a set amount of reinforcements. Every time a player dies, 1 reinforcement is lost for that faction.
If you’re Horde, every time a tower burns then you lose reinforcements. If you’re Alliance, every time a bunker burns then you lose reinforcements. Which is a much bigger chunk lost compared to a player dying.
The faction that reaches 0 reinforcements first, lose. The boss being killed also makes you lose.
Get it? Together with all of the other changes to AV in patch 2.3.0 and patch 2.4.0, that’s why the Horde cave was moved. It had NOTHING to do with respawns. Whatsoever. Since they had already made it so players couldn’t resurrect in the caves in patch 2.3.0, and the cave wasn’t moved until 2.4.0.
Yes! I remember now. Old brain. Either way this does not EPLAIN the movement of this cave, which is my point. I tend to think the movement of this cave had to do with the rush potential of horde at IB.
It’s because of the distance to the first enemy node. Basically, with all of these changes, Alliance got upset their SH Bunker was pretty much always assaulted before they had even gotten close to assaulting IB Tower.
That’s all. It’s because the meaning of that cave location had changed entirely because of the overhaul of AV as a whole in TBC.
It had nothing to do with what the social media disinformation campaign claims.
Allright. It does make sense. Still looking at current WoW, classic ofcourse, it seems like whever alliance captures IB (waits to solidify the timer) horde just keeps on pumping out too many blokes at once and too many in succession. I tend to think alliance can NOT do the same at SH. Am I wrong?
Depends. Are you saying the Alliance, during that wait for IB GY to be captured, is actually killing 11+ Horde players in a 30 sec window? Because if not, then it doesn’t even come into effect. Then it’s just a slightly closer GY, just like SH GY is to the first clash in mid, which is not advantageous to Horde whatsoever.
And people keep bringing up the IWB choke, but keep in mind that there’s not really a lot of places to LoS there and Alliance can go above on the side to get the high ground.
So when Horde is waiting for SH GY to be captured, the Horde resurrects all the way back at IB GY.
And as for the “cave advantage”, as I mentioned already, if it’s “impossible” for Alliance to overcome it, then why can Horde overcome it at SP GY?